First Move Down for Swingers

[birdie_man]

I've read some things around the web lately on various forums that seem to be saying that one should drive the right shoulder downplane or bring the hands down to the ball or w/e for the first move down...then the pivot just moves out of the way and responds how it needs to.

They use the "baseball pitcher does not think about his pivot and only thinks of his right hand" analogy.

Now...I've tried this...and the results have been crap.

I have found that if I try to drive my shoulder downplane or pull the club downplane with my hands (for the first move down) that I lose my away-from-target spine tilt through impact and my head moves too much forward.

I feel some switting getting in there too and hit low low pulls and shanks and lower shots in general. Not thin but low. I lose my plane (over the top a bit).

So what I'm thinking now is that if I give my attention to that right arm on the way down (instead of pulling with my left side) it seems to put me in danger of hitting when I'm supposed to be swinging.

Swinging is supposed to be a pulling motion after all.

Um...anyone think anything of this? Maybe I interpreted those posts (about starting the downswing with the right shoulder) wrong.

-Paul

[comdpa]

I've read some things around the web lately on various forums that seem to be saying that one should drive the right shoulder downplane or bring the hands down to the ball or w/e for the first move down...then the pivot just moves out of the way and responds how it needs to.

They use the "baseball pitcher does not think about his pivot and only thinks of his right hand" analogy.

Now...I've tried this...and the results have been crap.

I have found that if I try to drive my shoulder downplane or pull the club downplane with my hands (for the first move down) that I lose my away-from-target spine tilt through impact and my head moves too much forward.

I feel some switting getting in there too and hit low low pulls and shanks and lower shots in general. Not thin but low. I lose my plane (over the top a bit).

So what I'm thinking now is that if I give my attention to that right arm on the way down (instead of pulling with my left side) it seems to put me in danger of hitting when I'm supposed to be swinging.

Swinging is supposed to be a pulling motion after all.

Um...anyone think anything of this? Maybe I interpreted those posts (about starting the downswing with the right shoulder) wrong.

-Paul

Per 7-12, last 3 sentences. And 6-M-1 Downstroke sequence. 12-3-0 Section 6 and 7.

[Bagger Lance]

Great references Comdpa.

One of my own swinging snares was forgetting that the swing is from the ground up. Think bottom up rather than top down Birdie. The weight shift (pivot) is your first move.
The feel is letting the hands go along for the ride...a ride that they have defined from the top. That right shoulder can be a bad boy if the hips aren't in the lead.

Bagger

[12 piece bucket]

6-M-1 DOWNSTROKE SEQUENCE The Downstroke sequence of the Stroke Components is dictated essentially by Centrifugal Force; acceleration of a lagging Componet will cease at the instant it achieves an “In-Line” position with its immediately preceding Component.

Centers and Accumulators can be sequenced, overlapped, omitted, emphasized, triggered, and timed as the players understanding and skill permit. But the Club’s Swing Radius (6-B-0) ends at the “non-lagging” Component nearest to the Clubhead. The “Centers” of the Stroke start with the Feet or the employeed Component nearest to the feet in the following order: Knees, Hips, Shoulders, arms, Right Elbow, Left Wristcock and/or Left Hand Rotation. For maximum Power, the position of must be taken with that will allow Delay of the Release until all Components, except the Right Foot and Right Shoulder, have reached, or passed the Line-of-Site-to-the-Ball per 6-B-1-C. Then the Accumulators must move very rapidly toward their “In-Line” Position. But none should actually arrive (lose all their Lag and Drag until well after Impact. Also see 6-H-0.

Power Accumulators Release sequence is #4, #1, #2, #3 – regardless of which ones are being employed. Any Accumulator number may overlap or replace its preceding number but cannot precede it. Increase Overlap to increase THRUST – decrease Overlap to increase Velocity

[EdZ]

6-M-1 DOWNSTROKE SEQUENCE The Downstroke sequence of the Stroke Components is dictated essentially by Centrifugal Force; acceleration of a lagging Componet will cease at the instant it achieves an “In-Line” position with its immediately preceding Component.

Centers and Accumulators can be sequenced, overlapped, omitted, emphasized, triggered, and timed as the players understanding and skill permit. But the Club’s Swing Radius (6-B-0) ends at the “non-lagging” Component nearest to the Clubhead. The “Centers” of the Stroke start with the Feet or the employeed Component nearest to the feet in the following order: Knees, Hips, Shoulders, arms, Right Elbow, Left Wristcock and/or Left Hand Rotation. For maximum Power, the position of must be taken with that will allow Delay of the Release until all Components, except the Right Foot and Right Shoulder, have reached, or passed the Line-of-Site-to-the-Ball per 6-B-1-C. Then the Accumulators must move very rapidly toward their “In-Line” Position. But none should actually arrive (lose all their Lag and Drag until well after Impact. Also see 6-H-0.

Power Accumulators Release sequence is #4, #1, #2, #3 – regardless of which ones are being employed. Any Accumulator number may overlap or replace its preceding number but cannot precede it. Increase Overlap to increase THRUST – decrease Overlap to increase Velocity

An excellent quote - the description of the 'cracking whip'.

'motion' described - the physics of the 'swinging' force

[CalSr]

6-M-1 DOWNSTROKE SEQUENCE The Downstroke sequence of the Stroke Components is dictated essentially by Centrifugal Force; acceleration of a lagging Componet will cease at the instant it achieves an “In-Line” position with its immediately preceding Component.

Centers and Accumulators can be sequenced, overlapped, omitted, emphasized, triggered, and timed as the players understanding and skill permit. But the Club’s Swing Radius (6-B-0) ends at the “non-lagging” Component nearest to the Clubhead. The “Centers” of the Stroke start with the Feet or the employeed Component nearest to the feet in the following order: Knees, Hips, Shoulders, arms, Right Elbow, Left Wristcock and/or Left Hand Rotation. For maximum Power, the position of must be taken with that will allow Delay of the Release until all Components, except the Right Foot and Right Shoulder, have reached, or passed the Line-of-Site-to-the-Ball per 6-B-1-C. Then the Accumulators must move very rapidly toward their “In-Line” Position. But none should actually arrive (lose all their Lag and Drag until well after Impact. Also see 6-H-0.

Power Accumulators Release sequence is #4, #1, #2, #3 – regardless of which ones are being employed. Any Accumulator number may overlap or replace its preceding number but cannot precede it. Increase Overlap to increase THRUST – decrease Overlap to increase Velocity

Another question?

Can someone explain what is meant by quick start down in 19-C which surely must relate to 6-M1?

CalSr

[Yoda]

Can someone explain what is meant by quick start down in 10-19-C which surely must relate to 6-M-1?

Hi Cal,

Congratulations on this first post and also, on your fine grandson, Collin Neeman!

The Swinger's 'quick Start Down' of 10-19-C does not refer to a quick Hand action. Instead, it refers to an Instant Acceleration Hip Action that Loads the Power Package and sets the stage for the Downstroke's unwinding of the coiled Left Side.

The biggest problem the young Jack Nicklaus had to overcome was Flashing Hands (from the Top). With the aid of his teacher, Jack Grout, he learned to use his Pivot --not his Hands -- to begin the Downstroke. And the rest, as they say, is history.

[Mitchdoc]

Sorry for the newbie type post but where I get into trouble is the movement of the hips. How does one get the feel for the proper amount of hip slide and pivot action so as not to over or under do it?

[EdZ]

Sorry for the newbie type post but where I get into trouble is the movement of the hips. How does one get the feel for the proper amount of hip slide and pivot action so as not to over or under do it?

A good place to begin is with a heavy club and your eyes closed. That will show you if your hip motion (or lack of it) is causing you to fall off balance. Hold your finish, with your eyes closed, and picture the shot you want in your mind.

When you can swing with your eyes closed, holding your finish until 'the ball lands' - chances are your pivot will be in a decent condition.


Beyond a balance issue, I'd have to see your motion.

[Delaware Golf]

I've read some things around the web lately on various forums that seem to be saying that one should drive the right shoulder downplane or bring the hands down to the ball or w/e for the first move down...then the pivot just moves out of the way and responds how it needs to.

They use the "baseball pitcher does not think about his pivot and only thinks of his right hand" analogy.

Now...I've tried this...and the results have been crap.

I have found that if I try to drive my shoulder downplane or pull the club downplane with my hands (for the first move down) that I lose my away-from-target spine tilt through impact and my head moves too much forward.

I feel some switting getting in there too and hit low low pulls and shanks and lower shots in general. Not thin but low. I lose my plane (over the top a bit).

So what I'm thinking now is that if I give my attention to that right arm on the way down (instead of pulling with my left side) it seems to put me in danger of hitting when I'm supposed to be swinging.

Swinging is supposed to be a pulling motion after all.

Um...anyone think anything of this? Maybe I interpreted those posts (about starting the downswing with the right shoulder) wrong.

-Paul

Just use the MAGIC OF THE RIGHT FOREARM per 7-3.

DG