Strokes-basic

[Daryl]

I have always had trouble understanding the following part of 7-3.

7-3. STROKES-BASIC

Right Forearm Position at the Top differs for the Angle and Arc of Approach Procedures. So their Elbow location and action differ also. … For Swinging (10-19-C) the right forearm should be precisely in-line with - and directly opposed to - the motion of the On Plane Loading Action of the Secondary Lever Assembly (the Clubshaft) and this alignment maintained through impact.

Question: Is the left wrist bent slightly to accomplish this in line relationship in order to maintain longitudinal alignment of the primary lever assembly?

[Yoda]

I have always had trouble understanding the following part of 7-3.

7-3. STROKES-BASIC

Right Forearm Position at the Top differs for the Angle and Arc of Approach Procedures. So their Elbow location and action differ also. … For Swinging (10-19-C) the right forearm should be precisely in-line with - and directly opposed to - the motion of the On Plane Loading Action of the Secondary Lever Assembly (the Clubshaft) and this alignment maintained through impact.

Question: Is the left wrist bent slightly to accomplish this in line relationship in order to maintain longitudinal alignment of the primary lever assembly?

The Clubshaft and Left Arm are always In Line. This is the precision Assembly of the Left Arm Flying Wedge.

The Hitter using the Angle of Approach procedure has the #3 Pressure Point Loading on the back of the Clubshaft. The Right Forearm is directly behind the Clubshaft and supporting this Pressure Point.

The Swinger using the Arc of Approach procedure (and going past Top to End) rotates the #3 Pressure Point to the top of the Clubshaft. The Right Forearm is directly beneath and supporting this Pressure Point.

[Daryl]

The Clubshaft and Left Arm are always In Line. This is the precision Assembly of the Left Arm Flying Wedge.

The Hitter using the Angle of Approach procedure has the #3 Pressure Point Loading on the back of the Clubshaft. The Right Forearm is directly behind the Clubshaft and supporting this Pressure Point.

The Swinger using the Arc of Approach procedure (and going past Top to End) rotates the #3 Pressure Point to the top of the Clubshaft. The Right Forearm is directly beneath and supporting this Pressure Point.

Yes. You must get tired of answering that one for me. I understand the - back of the clubshaft - and - top of the clubshaft. But, nothing has actually changed, just the loading action. I guess I'm looking for more of a difference. It's a learning disability. It seems like something is missing and I can't get it out of my head. I had hoped that you wouldn't be the first person to get to this thread.

[Mike O]

Daryl,
Try this:
1) For swinging you,re ONLY loading the clubshaft- the secondary lever assembly. So take it back one handed with your right hand. Now, when you get towards the top- you want that right palm facing against the (loading) motion of the clubshaft - so the right hand and forearm fully support - the stopping of the backward movement of the club. That's how you want to be if you are "swinging" the clubshaft.

2) For hitting you're loading BOTH the left arm and the clubshaft (the primary lever assembly)- against the right hand/forearm. Make sure that the right palm is facing against the (loading) motion of the "entire primary lever assembly i.e. the left arm and clubshaft.

You'll notice different elbow locations based on what you're trying to stop(primary or secondary lever assembly)- which is based on what you're trying to accelerate (primary or secondary lever assembly).

It's best to read or quote the whole section. In addition, I would really feel that Homer is confusing the issue here because it's really Hitting OR Swinging - that's the key. Strictly speaking a swinger could use angle of approach or arc of approach procedures- so that's not really the defining imperative that creates these conditions. An angle of approach procedure and swinging are not mutually exclusive- although you'd probably be in a psych ward - which wouldn't be bad just that when you came back from your round of golf- there would be the 12 piece bucket waiting for you.

Bucket man- you out there?

[tongzilla]

Daryl,
In addition, I would really feel that Homer is confusing the issue here because it's really Hitting OR Swinging - that's the key. Strictly speaking a swinger could use angle of approach or arc of approach procedures- so that's not really the defining imperative that creates these conditions. An angle of approach procedure and swinging are not mutually exclusive- although you'd probably be in a psych ward - which wouldn't be bad just that when you came back from your round of golf- there would be the 12 piece bucket waiting for you.

I know exactly what you mean -- and I hate it when Homer does that! It leads me to think if he's so precise and careful with his words, there must be a reason for him to use the Angle/Arc terms rather than Hitting/Swinging. But that's just something we'll never find out

[Daryl]

Daryl,
Try this:
1) For swinging you,re ONLY loading the clubshaft- the secondary lever assembly. So take it back one handed with your right hand. Now, when you get towards the top- you want that right palm facing against the (loading) motion of the clubshaft - so the right hand and forearm fully support - the stopping of the backward movement of the club. That's how you want to be if you are "swinging" the clubshaft.

2) For hitting you're loading BOTH the left arm and the clubshaft (the primary lever assembly)- against the right hand/forearm. Make sure that the right palm is facing against the (loading) motion of the "entire primary lever assembly i.e. the left arm and clubshaft.

You'll notice different elbow locations based on what you're trying to stop(primary or secondary lever assembly)- which is based on what you're trying to accelerate (primary or secondary lever assembly).

It's best to read or quote the whole section. In addition, I would really feel that Homer is confusing the issue here because it's really Hitting OR Swinging - that's the key. Strictly speaking a swinger could use angle of approach or arc of approach procedures- so that's not really the defining imperative that creates these conditions. An angle of approach procedure and swinging are not mutually exclusive- although you'd probably be in a psych ward - which wouldn't be bad just that when you came back from your round of golf- there would be the 12 piece bucket waiting for you.

Bucket man- you out there?

Yes mike. That's the missing piece. To Cock On Plane and have the loading action directly in-line with the right forearm and keep the wedges aligned. When that happens, I have lots of lag. Since I have lots of lag and the club gets Driven Downward, I think that I must be doing it correctly. The right forearm and clubshaft are definitely on the same plane from Release to Follow Through. And, and this is very insightful, the lag pressure wants a straight line delivery path. (now comes the bad) In order to comply with these three alignments, I have a slight visual bend in my left wrist at the End position. Is this Ok? It returns to flat during On Plane #3 release roll before impact. But, is this a compensation?

[Mike O]

Yes mike. That's the missing piece. To Cock On Plane and have the loading action directly in-line with the right forearm and keep the wedges aligned. When that happens, I have lots of lag. Since I have lots of lag and the club gets Driven Downward, I think that I must be doing it correctly. The right forearm and clubshaft are definitely on the same plane from Release to Follow Through. And, and this is very insightful, the lag pressure wants a straight line delivery path. (now comes the bad) In order to comply with these three alignments, I have a slight visual bend in my left wrist at the End position. Is this Ok? It returns to flat during On Plane #3 release roll before impact. But, is this a compensation?

Daryl,
I haven't looked at that exactly- but for me- I'd place the physics- i.e. the lag results and the compression results way ahead of your actual or percieved bent left wrist at the end. Who cares- if it's a compensation or not as long as your getting the results! The Golfing Machine is a great book to attract a bunch of obsessive compulsive perfectionists (ya, that's me sometimes), but you don't need that. And in fact, his book takes into account, allows for and categorizes any swing- so whatever that left wrist bend at the top - whether real or perceived- that returns to Flat during On Plane #3 release roll before impact- Well, that's your pattern and it sounds like a great one!

[lagster]

Yes mike. That's the missing piece. To Cock On Plane and have the loading action directly in-line with the right forearm and keep the wedges aligned. When that happens, I have lots of lag. Since I have lots of lag and the club gets Driven Downward, I think that I must be doing it correctly. The right forearm and clubshaft are definitely on the same plane from Release to Follow Through. And, and this is very insightful, the lag pressure wants a straight line delivery path. (now comes the bad) In order to comply with these three alignments, I have a slight visual bend in my left wrist at the End position. Is this Ok? It returns to flat during On Plane #3 release roll before impact. But, is this a compensation?

.................................................. .......

The "SLIGHT BEND" may actually be FLAT, or it could be DOUBLE WRIST COCK. If your RIGHT hand is where it's supposed to be at the END, it sounds OK to me. Either way, if the LEFT WRIST gets into a good FLAT impact position, it's OK.

[12 piece bucket]

Daryl,
Try this:
1) For swinging you,re ONLY loading the clubshaft- the secondary lever assembly. So take it back one handed with your right hand. Now, when you get towards the top- you want that right palm facing against the (loading) motion of the clubshaft - so the right hand and forearm fully support - the stopping of the backward movement of the club. That's how you want to be if you are "swinging" the clubshaft.

2) For hitting you're loading BOTH the left arm and the clubshaft (the primary lever assembly)- against the right hand/forearm. Make sure that the right palm is facing against the (loading) motion of the "entire primary lever assembly i.e. the left arm and clubshaft.

You'll notice different elbow locations based on what you're trying to stop(primary or secondary lever assembly)- which is based on what you're trying to accelerate (primary or secondary lever assembly).

It's best to read or quote the whole section. In addition, I would really feel that Homer is confusing the issue here because it's really Hitting OR Swinging - that's the key. Strictly speaking a swinger could use angle of approach or arc of approach procedures- so that's not really the defining imperative that creates these conditions. An angle of approach procedure and swinging are not mutually exclusive- although you'd probably be in a psych ward - which wouldn't be bad just that when you came back from your round of golf- there would be the 12 piece bucket waiting for you.

Bucket man- you out there?

Mike O . . . Out here rocking in the corner and chasing livestock. Have you put anymore heads in the icebox?

Very nice quote by the way psycho-killah. How about a little fly-casting image for Drag Loading the Secondary Lever???

Also, you are the only one to give me a little love on Swinger's using the Angle of Approach . . . I mean it's in the 4th Edition. Could you please speak a bit more to that point? Please purdy please with human heads and butterfly wings on top?????

Medicine!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I need my pills!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Mike O]

"How about a little fly-casting image for Drag Loading the Secondary Lever???"

Bucket,
Right on! I just woke up and thought to myself- you know maybe I should also clarify that you need to "swing" the clubshaft independently- drag loading- for the swinger and in contrast for hitting make sure that you "carry- back" the primary lever assembly as one unit- because if you are not making that distinction- and say when hitting you are getting independent motion of the clubshaft- then you'll be loading it like a swinger and you're not really going to be doing it properly and you won't notice the difference (that is the right forearm "precisely in-line" 7-3 Section")- so that's an important part of the equation.

Regarding angle and arc of approach "procedures"- in this context- it'll be one of the few times when someone asks a honest question that I'll not try to answer it. Just not worth it- theoretically, the swinger could use angle of approach- but in reality - for me- on a real practical level- I just can't see it- and I think it would put you in a mental ward if you tried it- but Mr. Kelley would say something like- using my words- "Hey, you never know - someone might have a pattern or preference for such a movement - and if so - have at it- just realize the compensations - if any- that need to be kept in mind. Sooo Bucket- Let's move on (But nice try!! )