Driver Spin Rate vs Loft

[EdZ]

Got back on the monitor today for the first time in a while and found that my driver spin rate was up a bit more than I'd like.

Common wisedom would suggest that the shaft was the place to look, but checking on a range of different shafts, results were consistent. Ball position good, launch angle good, nice straight shots, but with spin rates about 1k higher than I'd like at around 4k+, angle of attack as high as 7 deg, down to 3 deg on better shots.

Jeff - have you found that moving to a higher loft can actually decrease spin rates by encouraging a more level angle of attack? That was the only variable I didn't have the abillity to adjust in today's session, using a 9.5 head (FT5 Tour and FTI Tour - did 'not' like the square head at all, yuck)

Perhaps a shaft that didn't fit my loading profile was causing me to 'work' at the shot more than normal, but my speed was around 105-110, so I wouldn't think that a softer shaft would help. Even when I tried slowing down a bit to 95+, same results.

[golfgnome]

Got back on the monitor today for the first time in a while and found that my driver spin rate was up a bit more than I'd like.

Common wisedom would suggest that the shaft was the place to look, but checking on a range of different shafts, results were consistent. Ball position good, launch angle good, nice straight shots, but with spin rates about 1k higher than I'd like at around 4k+, angle of attack as high as 7 deg, down to 3 deg on better shots.

Jeff - have you found that moving to a higher loft can actually decrease spin rates by encouraging a more level angle of attack? That was the only variable I didn't have the abillity to adjust in today's session, using a 9.5 head (FT5 Tour and FTI Tour - did 'not' like the square head at all, yuck)

Perhaps a shaft that didn't fit my loading profile was causing me to 'work' at the shot more than normal, but my speed was around 105-110, so I wouldn't think that a softer shaft would help. Even when I tried slowing down a bit to 95+, same results.

I think more loft will promote a better release motion. I find that a player of your caliber can benefit by increasing loft and increasing weight of the shaft. Loft at impact produces launch angle and shaft flex and weight produces spin. Try a 10.5 with a heavier shaft just to see what happens.

[EdZ]

I think more loft will promote a better release motion. I find that a player of your caliber can benefit by increasing loft and increasing weight of the shaft. Loft at impact produces launch angle and shaft flex and weight produces spin. Try a 10.5 with a heavier shaft just to see what happens.

Thanks - Makes sense based on my tests yesterday, better shafts for me were in the 68-70 range, didn't try anything over 70 but I'll check it out.

The only one lower than that which loaded/felt ok was the speeder 652, at 66. The stock FT Tour Fuji 360 was probably the best for my numbers and I'll definetly check out a 10.5.

[cometgolfer]

I think more loft will promote a better release motion. I find that a player of your caliber can benefit by increasing loft and increasing weight of the shaft. Loft at impact produces launch angle and shaft flex and weight produces spin. Try a 10.5 with a heavier shaft just to see what happens.

Jeff,

Can you explain a little more about the effect of shaft weight on spin? I understand the higher launch related to loft but I'm not sure I understand the weight impact on spin.

I fight a similar problem as Ed. I know better than to use an off the shelf driver, but I picked up a 905R (9.5) with the stock V2 stiff shaft (lighter than the tour version) last year. I hit it fine, but my spin is also in the 4k range.

Thanks,

CG

[golfgnome]

Jeff,

Can you explain a little more about the effect of shaft weight on spin? I understand the higher launch related to loft but I'm not sure I understand the weight impact on spin.

I fight a similar problem as Ed. I know better than to use an off the shelf driver, but I picked up a 905R (9.5) with the stock V2 stiff shaft (lighter than the tour version) last year. I hit it fine, but my spin is also in the 4k range.

Thanks,

CG

Two shafts with equal frequency and kick points will produce different spin rates. Heavier shafts will produce lower ball flights and spin rates than lighter ones. Many "tour" weight shafts feel bad to many players because they are stiff and heavy. To lower spin rates you can make the shaft stiffer or heavier or both.

Also make sure you creating true launch angle with your driver. If you do not have enough loft and you have to create it, you can see some high spin numbers, check the side spin numbers to verify.

[Yoda]

Two shafts with equal frequency and kick points will produce different spin rates. Heavier shafts will produce lower ball flights and spin rates than lighter ones. Many "tour" weight shafts feel bad to many players because they are stiff and heavy. To lower spin rates you can make the shaft stiffer or heavier or both.

Also make sure you creating true launch angle with your driver. If you do not have enough loft and you have to create it, you can see some high spin numbers, check the side spin numbers to verify.

This is the 'straight skinny' from one who knows. Please, no threadjack responses here, but go to http://www.lynnblakegolf.com/forum/s...0260#post40260 and post regarding Jeff's accomplishment today!

[Amen Corner]

Listening to the Video where Brian tests which ball to use, some questions arises.

With his driver, his stats are 13-14 launch, around 2800 spin and around 150-155 in ballspeed.

Is this optimal?
Which distance will this produce?
What loft/shafteweight/flex does he use?
Hitting the ball before low point"should" produce more spin......or not? and how does that comply with the above stats?

JEFF!!! where are you man?

[Bigwill]

Check this out. I believe that these are optimal numbers for a given clubhead speed.


http://www.tourtempo.com/velocity.pdf

[bambam]

I think more loft will promote a better release motion. I find that a player of your caliber can benefit by increasing loft and increasing weight of the shaft. Loft at impact produces launch angle and shaft flex and weight produces spin. Try a 10.5 with a heavier shaft just to see what happens.

I tried out some drivers on the launch monitor today, specifically a heavier shaft than my 65 gram. The heaviest I could find in the store was a stiff, 77 gram UST Proforce V2, but the head only had 9 degrees of loft. As expected my launch angle wasn't very good - 9.7 degrees, but my spin went down under 4000 rpm...3800 - still a little high. I have a couple questions:

Is it better to go heavier or stiffer on the shaft to get the spin down? What are the dangers of going heavier? I've also hit a friend's V2 x-stiff (same head), and I liked the way both the stiff and x felt.

Jeff, I remember you were hitting an 11 or 11.5 degree driver at the swamp last January. Are you still using that driver? I know 10.5 is a pretty standard loft for off-the-shelf drivers; is there a "favorite" or suggested loft that you find works well and encourages a good release with many golfers whom you fit?

Thanks!

[golfgnome]

I tried out some drivers on the launch monitor today, specifically a heavier shaft than my 65 gram. The heaviest I could find in the store was a stiff, 77 gram UST Proforce V2, but the head only had 9 degrees of loft. As expected my launch angle wasn't very good - 9.7 degrees, but my spin went down under 4000 rpm...3800 - still a little high. I have a couple questions:

Is it better to go heavier or stiffer on the shaft to get the spin down? What are the dangers of going heavier? I've also hit a friend's V2 x-stiff (same head), and I liked the way both the stiff and x felt.

Jeff, I remember you were hitting an 11 or 11.5 degree driver at the swamp last January. Are you still using that driver? I know 10.5 is a pretty standard loft for off-the-shelf drivers; is there a "favorite" or suggested loft that you find works well and encourages a good release with many golfers whom you fit?

Thanks!

Yes I am still using my Henry-Griffitts 460 11.5 loft driver. In fact I used it all year and had the best year of my life, especially off the tee.

Unfortunately it is almost impossible to compare driver lofts because:
1. There are no standards - some company's lofts are not accurate.
2. Effective loft - closed face drivers increase the effective loft. A 10 degree driver that is 2 degrees closed is actually 12 degrees for straight ballflight. Open face does the opposite.
3. COG - center of gravity varies from club to club.

The only way to test is to get fit by a reputable fitter and then try it on the golf course. Also be careful with launch monitors because I have seen radar based systems come up with really high spin numbers compared to camera based units. Outdoors with your eye is still a great test. Find an area that you have a forced carry and see which one flys the farthest. Then see how they roll. Have a friend help with this. Don't use Bucket because he can't see through those pop bottles on his eyes.

You also want to see a boring type of flight. You do not want the wind to affect it.

As far as a "favorite" loft that promotes a good release I would say it depends on the strength and speed of the player as well as what I want them to work on. I spent 4 days in Naples, Fl training some teachers about fitting and everyone who came to me was over 60 years old and not not overly strong. Some of them had good swings but were strugling to hit a driver. They all had lofts and flexes similar to mine. I know this is a hard pill for many people to swallow but everyone of these people hit the ball farther, straighter, and yes LOWER when I gave a 16 or 19 degree driver (yes, HG is the only company to offer these lofts. Why? Because they work). Every one of these players also maintained stronger balance and better hinging because of the added loft.

Loft depends on your release motion as well. There is still much debate about catching the driver before, at, or after lowpoint. I have seen success in all 3 areas. Catching the ball too much on the downstroke will produce too much spin, too much on the upstroke, too little spin. I may not like Bubba Watson's motion but I am not going to change it...or teach it.

This is a long answer but basically I do not like to use stereotypes. I would say that I use 13.5 and 16 degrees the most in my teaching and fitting the average player because bad swings provide the correct feedback. I would also say that if I am between lofts I would typically fit them into a higher loft with a heavier or stiffer shaft. I do not think there is a preference between heavier or stiffer being better, that is a feel issue for the player.

If the average player needs to produce 13-15 degrees of launch angle for max distance, how can 8-10.5 degrees do this? Bucket, you may need to take your shoes and socks off for this one.