hue on putting

[metallion]

hue,

You seem to have had some recent rapid success by taking advice from vj - and maybe other sources.

Would be interesting if you'd be able to share your current perspective by listing your first tier key adjustments & experiences in just a few bullets.

If at all possible.

Not looking for a quick fix, but rather ideas regarding which direction to take the first few steps to better putting.

I read and very much appreciate vj's posts, but different perspectives are always interesting.

[hue]

metallion:
I think it makes sense for me to describe where I was at and what I was doing prior to reading vj's post and also point out that despite a HUGE improvement I still consider my putting work in progress but with the feeling I am onto something and my putting scores reflect it.

I was always a good medium length putter and hold out far more of these length putts than I should. If I did not get the first putt dead and had a short one I would get over the putt and would have a "Here we go again" vibe and miss way too many of these. I could not make must make and should make putts and I had no confidence in this area. My average putting round was 36. On Sunday I took 26 putts and the two games before 27 and 28 putts. Since making the changes I have not had a round with more than 30 putts.

First off I got to the point where I realised that something had to be done. A couple of times playing partners said if I could putt I would score well. My attitude was wrong. I was more into ball striking and when I got to the green as far as I was concerned my work was really done. I spent little to no time practicing putting and had no real idea of what to work on. So I decided I was going to take putting seriously and mean business and enough was enough and was prepared to start from scratch . I left a post for vj as he was described as a top man on the Manzella site and is an AI. I am not into golfing mumbo jumbo so if the advice is not TGM based I take it with a pinch of salt. I had been following Harold Swash's advice of playing the ball forward in my stance and hitting up on the ball. I have had a putting lesson from him a few years back and walked away unconvinced. I tended to pull my short putts. I believe in swinging on plane so logic made me think that the only way to hit the putt straight from this position would be to manipulate the putter head and if I did not the putt should be pulled left. vj suggested moving the ball into the middle of the stance . He wrote

"Putts are hit just as shots on a miniature scale. Of the countless video I have at the moment of impact the better the putter the lower they hit on the ball. Bad putters usually have two things, a lie angle which is too upright and at impact they hit very high on the ball."

This made sense to me . Hitting up on the putt meant throwaway to me vj's advice conformed with the concepts of lag and plane. So I changed the ball position to.

Quote by vj

"My feeling on ball position is simple. Get it as close to the middle of the stance as possible. Dead middle is best"

It felt very strange at first but could not be worse than what I was doing already. I noticed the ball rolled better and the sound was different . The sound was like the sound you would hear at tournaments . Rolls right ,sounds right umm I think I am onto something.

vj wrote

"Equipment matters, vision matters, and mechanics matter. I know that doesn't say a whole lot but those are the things I look at when working on my stroke or anyone else's."

Equipment matters. I started to look into this and decided to have my putter altered around the lines of what I understand to be a good set up

vj wrote

The proper set up has more bend from the hips than the shoulders. In other words, the hips are up and out (anterior rotation) and the spine will be bent some at the shoulders. I don't want to see a player humped but neither do I want to see a player with their shoulders pulled back exposing their chest so to speak.

The eyes should be either directly over the ball or slightly inside the ball depending on gaze. If the eyes gaze vertically down (your neck horizontal to the ground) then the eyes would be directly over the ball. If the gaze is angled (the neck angled to the ground) then the gaze would be just inside the ball. This is getting technical, and I suggest getting the eyes over the ball line with the dominant eye directly over the back of the ball.
and

"Proper fitting plays a pivotal role. I do believe in getting the forearms on the same plane as the clubshaft, just as in the full swing with the right forearm, so the arms and putter shaft are moving in the same plane. It is a mechanical disadvantage to not have the forearms in plane with the putter shaft because of the arms and putter moving in different planes."
and

"Putter lengths should be 34 to 31 inches depending on height. A good rule of thumb is to have the top of the putter come to the bottom of your zipper when you are standing up. This will give you a length that will enable you to get into a good set up".


I got the putter " Scotty Cameron Studio Design 1" set up so that my eyes are looking over the ball and my forearms are lined upwith the shaft on the same plane around my body in my interpretation of vj's set up advice. For me this meant the putter was 32 1/2" and the lie angle had to be altered. For every inch I had the putter cut down I added 12gms of lead tape. I am looking to find someone to drill out holes in it and fill in the holes with molten lead to make up the weight and refinish it.

I then practiced keeping the putter shaft on plane with a laser trainer I bought for £2 at a car boot sale . Keeping it pointing at the base line through the entire stroke. I notice there was a difference between what I am now doing and was doing. With the Swash ball position I was holding off the putter face and stroking above plane in order to guide the ball. With vj's position all I had to do was set up right ,get the putter face aimed right and swing on plane with the right speed.

I purchased this

http://www.golfjustlikethepros.com/G...uideforweb.htm

to train in precision in setting the putter face dead square to my target. Now when I set up I mean business and have pin point accuracy in mind instead of there or there abouts is OK. and this

http://www.golfjustlikethepros.com/C...ingTrainer.htm

to get rid of any sloppy moves in my stroke.

One of my problems was short putts. So after I had altered my stroke . I worked on the short ones. I had someone watch me on the practice putting green to check my set up. I found that if I was a long way from the hole I could easily orientate my body to set up right but as I got closer to the hole the relative orientation of my body to the hole appeared different from my point of view. So I would have somebody check my set up from different distances when close to the hole and would observe and feel how my body looked and felt to validate in log in my memory. So that there was certainty in my set up instead of a fidgety shuffle and hope I was set up right. By practicing the short ones I am getting used to the ball going in more and weaning myself off the "Here we go again vibe" to a feeling of expectation that the ball is going to go in. I have more to do in this area . Some days are better than others and I have noticed that the better my confidence is the more of these I am likely to make.

I am giving more attention to green reading, watching playing partners putts and reading their putts and predicting the break etc and more so if I am putting first on the green. Watching and working on their putts after I have made mine. I am more into my putt when putting last but do watch what happens to my playing partner's putts to get clues to help me make mine. As vj suggests

"READ THE SPEED OF THE PUTT/ THIS WILL GIVE YOU THE LINE.

COMMIT TO THAT LINE AND SPEED

MAKE THE BEST STROKE POSSIBLE "

In general I do not consider myself a putting expert but I am a lot better than I was and am working on getting better. My attitude has changed . When I am walking towards the green I am hunting putts , looking to make the putt and mean business also if I miss a putt I do not take it personally any more just accepting it and moving on. I have been working on this so that a bad putt does not infect the rest of my game and future putts. This was not the same as before. I have no doubt that I could be doing things better and like I said this is work in progress

[metallion]

Thanks a lot, hue. More than I hoped for & a really good description. Also congrats. Looks like you've shaved 5-7 shots off your average #putts which is nothing else than a massive improvement.

I played with a scratch played last year. I was simply amazed to see his solid putting. He was 100% from 5ft & was never even close to a 3-putt no matter from where. Your post is a foglifter. I am sure he was just applying things along with what you are describing or at least just worked with some solid ideas on putting.

This posture part puzzles me. I just don't get it. I'll look up vj's post & see if it becomes any clearer.

metallion:
vj wrote

The proper set up has more bend from the hips than the shoulders. In other words, the hips are up and out (anterior rotation) and the spine will be bent some at the shoulders. I don't want to see a player humped but neither do I want to see a player with their shoulders pulled back exposing their chest so to speak.

[hue]

This posture part puzzles me. I just don't get it. I'll look up vj's post & see if it becomes any clearer.

Originally Posted by hue

metallion: vj wrote The proper set up has more bend from the hips than the shoulders. In other words, the hips are up and out (anterior rotation) and the spine will be bent some at the shoulders. I don't want to see a player humped but neither do I want to see a player with their shoulders pulled back exposing their chest so to speak.

I wrote " my interpretation of vj's set up advice" I would like this to be cleared up also. I took vj's post to mean that he wanted a forward lean of the spine over the ball to be created by bending over like a jack knife from the hip sockets rather than a humpty back hunch of the shoulders to get over the ball. The spine is bent some from the shoulders anyway. So I took his post to mean that he did not want any extra artificial hunching going on to get more over the ball and you set up like you should in other golf stokes by bending at the hip sockets. With luck vj will clear this up.

[hue]

vj said Equipment matters IMO he is right. I am getting my made to measure putter refinished so I played with a different putter yesterday a 35" Cleveland Crenshaw type blade that does not suit my set up. I did not feel comfortable with it and did not putt too well . It was all a bit of a struggle and I missed putts that I KNEW I would make with my normal putter. I don't think you can putt to your potential without having a fitted putter or a putter that fits you. I was not too bothered by my performance as I knew this was down to the putter shaft not lining it self up with my forearms when my eyes were over the ball and a different head weight and feel .