Seems to be a lot of confusion regarding how swing path and face orientation contributes to the ball flight. Not to mention all the other contributing factors.
Anyone able to give references to a solid online research article based on experiments (highspeed photography) that clearly shows how it actually works and kills the subject for ever?
The Golfing Machine as well the Maltby 800-page "bible" clearly says that the Ball Flight Laws are junk and I believe they are.
Annikan . . .
Originally Posted by annikan skywalker
What?
Annikan
Originally Posted by 12 piece bucket
I think it's the DEGREE of open or closed clubface in relation to the plane line that determines how much hook or fade.
Annikan . . .
Originally Posted by annikan skywalker
Bucket?....
Nice Post!!!
as my dad used to say to my brother and me: "All right you two, what's going on here!?"
I think it's the DEGREE of open or closed clubface in relation to the plane line that determines how much hook or fade.
Annikan . . .
Excellent post...
As for scientific evidence, there seems to very little that addresses this issue in english.
Most noted instructors that I have come across that use the Ball Flight Laws really use it at a very coarse level and on full swings, no putters.
I long ago gave up on these discussions since there are two camps for sure and none can account for all the variables, the loft, speed, directional vectors, etc.
i cant beleive there isnt any hard evidence out there i wonder if the golf labs has anything n it i think thats what its called that independent testing facility
Once I fully accepted that the ball will almost always take off at a right angle to the loft of the club, my shotmaking became much more proficient. If you don't understand what a "right angle to the loft of the club" means, this clubfitting aid will give you an idea of the path the ball will take at 90 degrees to the loft of the club: http://www.golfworks.com/product.asp_Q_pn_E_MLAT.
I can now "thread the needle" between two trees (I play a heavily wooded track), curve the ball either way at will, and have become much better at controlling the starting direction and amount of curvature on my curve balls.
I now focus on using my clubface for starting direction and using clubhead path (rotated plane lines) to control curvature. For years I got terrible results doing just the opposite (trying to control starting direction with path and curvature with face). So, now, if I want to hit a 10 yard draw with a driver, I'll aim the clubface and my body at the right edge of the fairway. Then, I'll adjust my body lines a couple of degrees further to the right, in effect, closing my plane line slightly. The ball will take off where the clubhead is aiming at impact, and, due to the slight oblique impact, the ball will curve gently to the left.
No more left-to-lefts and no more right-to-rights for me.
Once I fully accepted that the ball will almost always take off at a right angle to the loft of the club, my shotmaking became much more proficient. If you don't understand what a "right angle to the loft of the club" means, this clubfitting aid will give you an idea of the path the ball will take at 90 degrees to the loft of the club: http://www.golfworks.com/product.asp_Q_pn_E_MLAT.
I can now "thread the needle" between two trees (I play a heavily wooded track), curve the ball either way at will, and have become much better at controlling the starting direction and amount of curvature on my curve balls.
I now focus on using my clubface for starting direction and using clubhead path (rotated plane lines) to control curvature. For years I got terrible results doing just the opposite (trying to control starting direction with path and curvature with face). So, now, if I want to hit a 10 yard draw with a driver, I'll aim the clubface and my body at the right edge of the fairway. Then, I'll adjust my body lines a couple of degrees further to the right, in effect, closing my plane line slightly. The ball will take off where the clubhead is aiming at impact, and, due to the slight oblique impact, the ball will curve gently to the left.
No more left-to-lefts and no more right-to-rights for me.
Vjcapron....
Very nice post...good players curve the ball with rotated plane lines...hackers curve it with clubface manipulation...
The curvature of the ball is obviously a combination of a few more facors than just face and path....but for the average junkie..that's enough...what other factors might be involved....
1.) Ball Speed
2.) Launch Angle
3.) Vertical Spin Rate/Horizontal Spin Rate
4.) Drag
5.) Gravity
6.) Clubface Motion/Hinge Action
7.) Loft
8.) Lie/Plane Angle
9.) Moment of Inertia of the Head
10.) Torque
11.) Shaft Flex
12.) Overall Weight
13.) Bend Point
14.) Dimple Configuration
15.) Vertical, Horizontal, and Longitudinal Center of Gravity of the Clubhead...
16.) Angle/Arc of Approach
17.) Angle/Arc of Attack
18.) Ball location
This is probably just the tip of the iceberg....but at least it's a start......
Last edited by annikan skywalker : 11-19-2005 at 12:30 AM.
i have also wanted to see some results on this topic there has to be some hard data out there using iron byron or something
One day with Iron Byron would shut this question down for good. If it hasn't been done, it is way overdue. They have the technology, why don't they use it?
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