John Dunigan

[Vikram]

Anyone visited John Dunigan's site www.golfbetterproductions.com. Seems to have quite a bit of TGM in there. Talks about educated hands and anyone who uses those terms has gotta beleive in TGM. Is he an AI?

Vikram

[Mathew]

Ummm.... I doubt hes an AI - too many inaccuracies in his text which I skimmed.

[djoc]

I bought his book. Good concepts but not TGM. He advocates pushing with the hands. Very big on swing plane and lag. His first move down is a backward push with the hands. I enjoyed his book.

[EdZ]

I've read his book, a while back, and didn't quite understand what he was trying to describe. I would guess that it is a move similar to what Tomasello describes, but his seemed to me to also include a plane shift of some kind.

I can see from the photos that he can strike a ball well, it was just a touch unclear exactly what he wanted folks to work on.

[Matt]

From what I've seen, he's big on the plane. He wants a double shift - from the elbow to the turned shoulder back to the elbow plane. I'm sure what he's teaching will fix most slicers but if he gets a good player I'd have to guess that they will start fighting the hooks.

Basically, he either a) doesn't know you can have a zero shift; or b) doesn't like a zero shift. Everything in his book is regarding a double shift. His ball-flight "laws" are also completely backwards from what I remember. Pretty much the exact opposite of what really happens. Says clubhead path determines starting direction and clubface dictates curvature. Thus an out-to-in path with an open face means you'll hit a pull-slice...when we all know what will really happen.

[Delaware Golf]

I bought his book. Good concepts but not TGM. He advocates pushing with the hands. Very big on swing plane and lag. His first move down is a backward push with the hands. I enjoyed his book.

Here is a quote from Tomasello's 1991 Golf Illustrated interview...

"....once you have the set the flat left wrist and the bent-back right at address, the hands do absolutely nothing throughout the swing. That is a major hurdle for most golfers; to do nothing with their hands and wrists feels foreign, because they've been manipulating them so many different ways throughout their lives".

Doesn't sound like the move djoc decribes above is what Tomasello taught...

DG

[Vikram]

His ball-flight "laws" are also completely backwards from what I remember. Pretty much the exact opposite of what really happens. Says clubhead path determines starting direction and clubface dictates curvature. Thus an out-to-in path with an open face means you'll hit a pull-slice...when we all know what will really happen.[/quote]


FOR ALL OF US WHO HAVE BEEN TAUGHT OR LEARNT IN ALMOST EVERY TEXT WRITTEN ON BALL FLIGHT LAWS THAT THE CLUBHEAD PATH( BEYOND A CERTAIN SPEED WHERE THE PATH VECTOR SPEED SUPERCEDES THE FACE DIRECTION DICTATES TO THE STARTING INITIAL DIRECTION OF THE BALL AND THE DIRECTION OF THE CLUBFACE WILL DETERMINE THE CURVATURE OF THE BALLFLIGHT, THIS IS OBVIOUSLY NOT CORRECT AS PER THE ASSUMPTION MADE. IN A PUTT WHICH IS A STROKE OF LESSER INTENSITY THAN A DRIVE IT IS CLEARLY SEEN THAT THE CLUBFACE ALIGNMENT DETERMINES THE STARTING DIRECTION OF THE BALL BUT WHAT HAPPENS WHEN THE CLUBHEAD TRAVELS ACROSS THE BALL FASTER AS IN A DRIVER. WOULD THE RESULT BE THE SAME IN BOTH CASES??? IT WOULD BE NICE TO KNOW FOR OUR FORUM READERS WHAT ACTUALLY HAPPENS TO THE SHOT SHAPE WHEN THE PATH IS OUT TO IN AND THE CLUBFACE IS OPEN TO THE PATH LINE IF ITS NOT A PULL SLICE THEN WHAT IS IT/ A PUSH SLICE.

[Matt]

FOR ALL OF US WHO HAVE BEEN TAUGHT OR LEARNT IN ALMOST EVERY TEXT WRITTEN ON BALL FLIGHT LAWS THAT THE CLUBHEAD PATH( BEYOND A CERTAIN SPEED WHERE THE PATH VECTOR SPEED SUPERCEDES THE FACE DIRECTION DICTATES TO THE STARTING INITIAL DIRECTION OF THE BALL AND THE DIRECTION OF THE CLUBFACE WILL DETERMINE THE CURVATURE OF THE BALLFLIGHT, THIS IS OBVIOUSLY NOT CORRECT AS PER THE ASSUMPTION MADE. IN A PUTT WHICH IS A STROKE OF LESSER INTENSITY THAN A DRIVE IT IS CLEARLY SEEN THAT THE CLUBFACE ALIGNMENT DETERMINES THE STARTING DIRECTION OF THE BALL BUT WHAT HAPPENS WHEN THE CLUBHEAD TRAVELS ACROSS THE BALL FASTER AS IN A DRIVER. WOULD THE RESULT BE THE SAME IN BOTH CASES??? IT WOULD BE NICE TO KNOW FOR OUR FORUM READERS WHAT ACTUALLY HAPPENS TO THE SHOT SHAPE WHEN THE PATH IS OUT TO IN AND THE CLUBFACE IS OPEN TO THE PATH LINE IF ITS NOT A PULL SLICE THEN WHAT IS IT/ A PUSH SLICE.

The clubface determines starting direction. The ball will always leave at about right angles to the clubface at separation. Let's think about it in simple terms: the ball rebounds off the clubface and starts in a given direction. How is the ball going to start RIGHT when the clubface is pointing LEFT? There's really no way for the ball to rebound in a direction other than where the face is pointing. In my example, the out-to-in path with an open face will cause the ball to start RIGHT and curve further RIGHT.

We should discuss the fact that the ball is compressed against the face for about 3/4 of an inch down the line of compression during impact. Some will say that this will cause the ball to start in the direction of the clubhead path. I believe that the effect on path in this circumstance is negligible, because as soon as the ball rebounds off the face it's taking off wherever the face is pointing. See 2-D-0 "Directional Factors."

[12 piece bucket]

The clubface determines starting direction. The ball will always leave at about right angles to the clubface at separation. Let's think about it in simple terms: the ball rebounds off the clubface and starts in a given direction. How is the ball going to start RIGHT when the clubface is pointing LEFT? There's really no way for the ball to rebound in a direction other than where the face is pointing. In my example, the out-to-in path with an open face will cause the ball to start RIGHT and curve further RIGHT.

We should discuss the fact that the ball is compressed against the face for about 3/4 of an inch down the line of compression during impact. Some will say that this will cause the ball to start in the direction of the clubhead path. I believe that the effect on path in this circumstance is negligible, because as soon as the ball rebounds off the face it's taking off wherever the face is pointing. See 2-D-0 "Directional Factors."

Great post!

[kmmcnabb]

Matt,

Great post on ball flight. Exactly right from my experience. I have a friend who insists he is not coming over the top because his ball flight is right, then way right. He is thinking inside with open clubface.


I can clearly see he is coming over the top but he won't listen to me at all since he reads all the books and has it ingrained that direction is clubhead path or direction not clubface.