No offense intended...Methuselah!
 

One more trip around the sun and you are half a century! :happy3: Good job on fighting the law of entropy! :salut:

Wisdom Within
 

So Bagger, You almost started with a question but obviously you know the answer. You never have to raise your stress if you are happy with the status quo. But for most of us, as with my writing and publishing challenge, I had to adjust my schedule to get the most productivity for my efforts. So at 3:00 a.m. I get the most done. The inherant stress that I could have felt burried under would be giving up my evenings, some dramatic television. Initially I felt deprived but a little bit of calm, mature consideration and I was happy to give up these things in light of the satisfaction of a more important goal. That is the real secret, if there is one. Here's a great and short little mind game to play whenever you are adjusting your life to accomodate a new demand, be in invited or not. I will place this in light of the scenario I painted since I think most people will agree that a 7:00 bedtime and 3:00 arisal is unusual.
After I found a solution to my sleep and writing problems I still felt like it would be a stressful adjustment. So I used this method to realign my thinking into something positive and calm.

My stressful thinking: I will hate going to bed so early I can't have any evening phone time, the only time for most of my friends, and I can't watch "my favorite programs" and it's still light outside when I go to bed."

Question One: Is this true?
"We'll yes, I will be going to bed at infantile hours, missing my shows, and it is light outside."

Question Two: Is it all really true?
"Well no, I actually like going to bed early, I usually only watch TV because I don't feel like doing much else since I've been working with clients since 6:00 a.m. I don't really care that much about the TV shows as I miss them anyime a friend invites me to dinner or comes over for a visit or a book I'm reading is at a good place. Frankly, I love sleeping in on the weekend after the sun comes up so what's the big difference?"

Question Three: How do you feel when you think the stressful thoughts?
"I feel deprived and controlled by my busy life. I feel like I am limited by my own choices and like I expect too much out of life."

Question Four: How do you feel when you aren't thinking about it?
"I think it is luxurious to lay down in bed with no responsibility to anyone at a wickedly early hour of the night. I absolutely love getting the writing accomplished as I have always wanted to finish my manuscript and feel like I am making real progress. I also love that I write more usable text in two hours that I used to get when I would force my tired mind to sit at the computer from 7:00-11:00 every evening. I frankly think watching the television, and somebody elses made up story, a waste of time even if I'm not watching the silly game and reality shows. I feel in complete control, achieving my goals and able to adjust my schedule when ever I feel like it serves my life best."


Ok this may seem silly but it is a tried and true method. And now I don't have to think about it any longer I just accept my adjustments and the stress inducing demand is not longer a negative issue. I also have to do this with training because it is important to me I am happy to make the necessary sacrifices to make it safe and effective.

It is really all about acceptance of what is. Do the best to orchestrate the most peaceful environment in light of the new demands and then accept the reality. I swear it gets easier with practice. Staying focused on the difficulty and the negative is a practiced mental exercise also. Take your pick.

Vik

So much wisdom, thank you for sharing Vickie. And all the best in your pursuits.

Vickie,

I am a beginning lifter and I have made some good progress in the last 7 weeks. I have gone from 150 to 168 pounds. And by working out 3 days a week on compound lifts I have improved my strength.

My 5 rep maxes:
Overhead press: 90 pounds to 125 pounds
Back Squat: 135 pounds to 270 pounds
Deadlift: 165 pounds to 275 pounds
DB Snatch: 50 pounds to 75 pounds
Bench Press: I messed this up initially and am now starting to make progress.

So here is the question. I have noticed in the last couple of weeks I have been extremely fatigued, negative, and barely able to get through my workouts. I might be getting dangerously close to overtraining (I'm still able to progress every week on weights though). I think I will start a deload week but I don't know how much to deload without really losing too much. I just want to deload lower body because upper body seems to be moving along alright still and doesn't seem to be causing too much fatigue. Would a 75% deload week be about right?

Thanks!

Matt

If you've been hitting it hard for seven straight weeks, it's probably time for a break. I know it's tough -- you feel like your whole daily routine is out of whack without the gym -- but it helps in the long run. So, for you, a good week of rest and recuperation is likely a good idea. You don't have to sit around all week, but just stay away from the weights.

When you start to look at the bigger picture of your training, you can begin to schedule in "deload" weeks. This can mean taking a few workouts off, or perhaps cutting volume by half for a week (reduce the amount of sets you're doing for each exercise by half).

The point is to give your body a chance to rebound -- to let your fitness catch up with your fatigue. Excessive fatigue, as you seem to be noticing, makes you underperform and lose the motivation to work out.

Let us know how it goes!

Say What?
 

Mrodock,

I must tell you I haven't heard the word deload in a while and I would definitely not recommend a 75% reduction. I have some questions. I need to know how many sets and at what weight you build to your 5 rep max. Are these all of the exercises you are doing? Are you doing this workout three times a week? How much do you weigh? How old are you. Do you know your bodyfat percentage? Is this seven week beginning the only time you have done any ongoing strength training? Do you have a trainer? How did you choose your program? What are your objectives?

You hit the nail on the head, you are overtrained. The first sign I look for is apathy with regard to going to the gym or reaching your goal or even staying focused during the workout. Assuming you are over trained you have no choice but to take your workouts down a notch. Next week allow yourself two days between workouts. When I see your whole program I can advise you about your weight, rep, set orchestration.

Are you getting enough sleep? How is your nutrition? Are you doing cardio/aerobics also?

I hope you'll provide this information so I can give you an answer for the other viewers to see. So often people will ask questions that might help others but then we don't get the whole picture.
Most of our viewers don't train with this level of weight so they have no reference point.

I am a real believer in split routines and this includes compound motions. You should alternate between high intensity workouts and lower intensity workouts. This allows you to keep working but slips in some extra recovery. There is also some imbalance in your weight allocation. I don't see any lat or rhomboid work represented here. Hope that's an oversight.

Matt is very experienced but I must clarify that your fitness won't catch up with fatigue unless you change your training protocol. The purpose of training with overload is to raise your fitness level, the bodies ability to perform and recover more efficiently. Since your benefits from training don't happen in the gym but in the period of time afterward when the body heals the microtramas, you have to be sure that your rest period is sufficient and healing is complete before you begin tearing down the muscle again. [Not allowing enought time to rebuild is one of the main reasons people complain about not getting bigger or stronger. They tear down and start to rebuild but then tear down again before the new muscle response occurs. Robbing Peter to pay Paul] This enormous fatigue that seems not to go away and interfers with your workouts is a clear indicator of adrenal fatigue which is a precursor for excess cortisol production. (I still have to finish that part of my post). And taking off more than a few days means that you must reevaluate your program and your goal timelines. A five rep max, based on the information you illuminated, indicates to me that you are maxing out every workout. Nobody will recover from that, especially if they have a real life with work and family and sports.

Vik

Vickie,

I am doing the Starting Strength program by Rippetoe and Kilgore. It is a 3 sets x 5 reps program, 3 times a week. So I do not have a trainer, I am simply following the book. They do not talk much about what to do when it comes to overtraining or avoiding it altogether (there is no index so it is difficult to confirm). I do not have a trainer. I am 27 years old and I only started lifting any weights about 4 months ago and I just started with some upper body and then added some lower body exercises after a few weeks. I get an average of 7 hours of sleep a day during the week, and about 9 hours during weekends. I eat around 4000 calories a day. Taking about 150 grams of whey protein, 25 grams of BCAA, 20 grams of glutamine. I typically eat about 3 serving of fruit a day but not much for vegetables. I eat whole grains, steak, turkey, guacamole, peanut butter, eggs, walnuts, cocunut, etc. Almost all foods are organic. I would like to take fish oil but I've gotten the fish burps a few times and it is so disgusting I cannot continue to eat enough to gain the weight I wish to put on. I started at 150 pounds, probably around 12% body fat and am now 168 pounds 7 weeks later. I understand this to be pretty typical weight gain on the program if it is followed correctly. In the first 2 weeks I made huge gains on the big lifts but now I ry to go up a little bit of weight each week. I do 4 warm-up sets on each lift and 3 work sets on all lifts except for Romanian deadlifts and regular deadlifts where I do a single work set. I will outline my workout routine below.

To be honest I want to workout. But the workouts are taking so much out of me it is crazy. Plus, I think my generally negative attitude lately has to do with overtraining. When I am at the gym I am happy I am there it is just so hard to get through the workouts.

By 75% deload I meant lift 75% of the weight that I ordinarily do for a week.

The authors of the book claim that people can go 2 to 3 months on this program before they have to start periodizing their workouts.

This is my program in its entirety, I do not mix in any cardio. A typical cycle for me is as follows:

Monday:
Back Squat
Overhead Press
Romanian deadlift
Face pulls

Wednesday:
Front Squat
Bench Press
DB Snatch
Grip work

Friday:
Back Squat
Overhead Press
Deadlift
Face pulls

Monday:
Front Squat
Bench Press
DB Snatches
Grip Work

When I began having trouble adding 5 pounds to my back squat every workout I started with the front squats. That was after 4 weeks.

One other thing, my stomach has been more bloated in the past couple of days than usual. I am going to start taking a probiotic supplement in case it is gastrointestinal upset but it might be the result of excess cortisol as well. Related to that is the fact that I tend to store fat in my stomach which I think is indicative of someone that tends to have higher cortisol levels.

Any supplement advice or ideas for how to recover and not lose much of my progress and stay on this program would be most appreciated.

Thanks!

Matt

Poster Child
 

Matt,

Your current condition is exactly what this thread is about and thanks for jumping in. Like I mentioned earlier, the hormonal system doesn't discriminate stress. It treats it all the same whether its physical, mental, or emotional. Correct me if I'm mistaken here Vik.

Now imagine you've qualified for a big tournament last month or you are defending your club championship this weekend until Monday. You will walk 54 holes for three days under tournament pressure.

Assuming your golf game is really good and under normal circumstances you could win, do you think you would play your best golf right now?

If things went well I think I could keep things going. A double or triple bogey given my current condition could cause me to come unglued whereas ordinarily I could probably get through it.

Being calm and collected certainly helps and a proper amount of cortisol makes a big difference in maintaining such a state no matter the circumstances.

Body Stress
 

Great Reply Matt, You definitely have the supplements and enough calories to support your work. I am grateful for your workout exercise list, now what is the weight/rep/set configuration. Also, let's get your current bodyfat percentage.

Without knowing your lifestyle I will assure you that you need a lot of rest for this kind of workout, I am going on your max overload approach. Bodybuilders take atleast two naps during the day and do little else physical to sustain growth and recovery.

I have only glanced at the online material regarding the book you referenced and I liked what I read. The focus on only using the amount of weight you can manage in full range, proper form is right on. I will tell you though, that you are missing some key exercises and from their protocol it is upon their recommendations.

You can't sustain good core balance without addressing the lats and the rhomboids directly; I will go to the mat on this. Since you have a quote referencing lag on your posts I will tell you that the lat is instrmental in creating this phenomenon in conjunction with the chest's role in creating the movement of your arms as they cross your body.

Also, as strange as this may sound you need some cardio. So often people think of this as just a fat loss routine and another energy using function. You are very young in body building, 4 months I think you said, and made no indication of any previous exercise program. The cardio-pulmonary system is your master of providing the oxygen necessary for your muscles to create energy in the mitocandria of each cell. The vascular system is the middle man that carries this necessary nutrient to the muscles; in fitness you will often hear cardio referred to as cardio-vascular exercise. People assume that you will use up to much energy and hard injested calories if they do cardio of any kind during their bulking phase. The truth is that you need a strong cardio-pulmonary-vascular system that is efficient and effective to supply enormous amounts of oxygen to this level of work. Likewise, your muscles need to be very efficient at receiving the oxygen once it is made available. Often, in the beginning phases of training hard, these systems are not sufficient to support the work. The natural response if fatigue and resistance to taking on more work that the body is unable to perform safetly. This is also the reason that we take time off and "de-load" during phases. I will also add that we typically think of the first three to six months as beginning and use this time to set the system up for increasing to maximal levels. You jumped right in full bore. Not a criticism, just an observation. The fact that you are anazyzing this already indicates that you will be successful in finding your perfect training program. It's never the same for any body at any age.

Don't be discouraged by my asking for more work. You only need to train this cardio system for short, low intensity workouts to improve it's performance and the body's receptive capabilities. Of my past power friends, the bike was the machine of choice.

There are other training options I could share but I will do so with respect to the fact that you found a program that got your motivation roaring. In the mean time I hope you are getting a multi vitamin and plenty of C and you have to keep your carbs up to keep your cortisol from sabotaging your hard work. You said few vegetables so why don't you give me a day's nutrition journal and let's tear it apart. Your protein requires carbs for efficient assimilation and I can't imagine 4,000 calories without more carbs than my brain assumed. What about complex carbs? They will also keep your energy stores high enough to keep your muscle in place.

Sounds like you have the basic platform now let's make it yours. Vik

P.S. Bagger is right, Stress come in a miriad of forms but once the body has to deal with it you are facing one predictable system of management.

27, how dare you have such an advantage. You go!