LynnBlakeGolf Forums - Hula like pivot

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff (Post 58658)

Jeff,

Thanks for these sequences. We all do better when we can actually see these principles in action, and your skills in this area are a wonderful contribution to the educational mission of our site.

A question regarding your sequence of Stuart Appleby:

In Photos #1 and #3, my guess is that the yellow line represents the spine and its inclined angle to the ground ("axis tilt"). But what does the line in Photo #2 represent . . . the original angle per Photo #1? Thanks.

:salut:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yoda (Post 58657)

In this "Hell bent for leather" stroke, with maximum Pivot Participation and Arm Swing, the back of Ben Hogan's head never leaves the vertical grid line. It correctly swivels (per 1-L #2), and it Bobs a smidgeon, but it nonetheless remains anchored to the grid.

Put up a handicap golfer -- or even a TOUR player or three (past and present) -- and let's see how they do on the 'grid' test.

Now, the surveyor gets out his transit, measures off against his control points, and says "Ben set his head 1.1263 inches to the right of center at address and then moved it to .34 inches ahead of center at impact." I say, fine. Does that mean I should teach my students to set their heads 1.1263 inches to the right of center at address and move it .34 inches ahead at impact?

Please. :rolleyes:

Students need to learn the correct Pivot -- the correct circular motion of the Body -- and the correct Action of its Components (Feet, Knees, Hips and Shoulders) . . . not how to move the Head back and forth one inch.

Learn to Pivot, guys. And learn to keep your Head still while you're doing it. Picture the spinning skater and Center your arc. Make it the subconscious lynch pin of your Stroke, and introduce a new consistency to your game.

:salut:

Is that a good one?

Quote:

Originally Posted by KOC (Post 58664)

Is that a good one?

KOC,

I cannot get the link.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yoda

Students need to learn the correct Pivot -- the correct circular motion of the Body -- and the correct Action of its Components (Feet, Knees, Hips and Shoulders) . . . not how to move the Head back and forth one inch.

Learn to Pivot, guys. And learn to keep your Head still while you're doing it. Picture the spinning skater and Center your arc. Make it the subconscious lynch pin of your Stroke, and introduce a new consistency to your game.

:salut:

Yoda,
When you teach your students the correct pivot, do you than teach them the pivot while they at the same time are aware of their hands or can you teach the pivot separately of the hands?
Thanks

Zone One Training

Quote:

Originally Posted by acsweden (Post 58668)

Yoda,
When you teach your students the correct pivot, do you than teach them the pivot while they at the same time are aware of their hands or can you teach the pivot separately of the hands?
Thanks

I teach the Pivot (its Motion and Components) separately from the Hands, using the MacDonald Exercises (especially Nos. 1-4 and 10-11): http://lynnblakegolf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4435.

However, I always coordinate this training with the On Plane assignments of the Hands, using a series of drills that emphasize Clubshaft alignments with the Plane Line.

:salut:

Yoda - the yellow lines represent the spinal tilt angle.

The yellow line in photo 2 is only an approximation because I believe that it is impossible to accurately represent the spine position when the golfer is at the end-backswing position - when viewing the golfer from a face-on view. At the end-backswing, the pelvis has rotated about 45 degrees and the shoulders about 90 degrees. That causes the spine to twist in a spiral manner, so it is impossible to draw a single line as being accurately representative of the degree of spinal tilt (of a spiral structure).

I draw my "approximate spine line" as follows. I know that the pelvis rotates 45 degrees in the backswing which shifts the lowest lumbar vertebra to the left. I then start the bottom of my line just left of center (approximately where I think the L5 vertebra is located). I then look for a point at the base of the neck where I imagine the C7 vertebra is located (which is near the blue dot = upper swing center between the shoulder blades), and I draw a straight line between those two points.

Jeff.

"Show Some Backbone, Will Ya?" -- Indiana Jones

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff (Post 58679)

Jeff,

I respect your scientific and biomechanically-based methodolgy, but . . .

I also trust you and your innate sense of movement!

Please gimme a Jeff's freehand approximation of the "spiraled" -- I agree with and love this description! -- spine angle. With all due respect to any perceived straight-line relationship between L5 and C7, just let it go, and let's see what we get. [Can we use the color red? I like red!] Then, let's compare that rendering to the yellow line.

FWIW, it appears to me that the Head has remained within its 'box' during the Backstroke and that the Hips have Shifted decidedly to the right (we now can see a pine tree!). And that means -- according to my own theoretical 'grandfather clock' model expressed above -- that the lower spine tilts ever so slightly 'away' from the target on the Backstroke, not 'toward' it.

Whatever it is, is, of course . . .

So, let's figure out just what is, is.

Sounds like I ought to be running for office!

:laughing9

Yoda

I personally don't think that there is any advantage trying to free-draw a spiral line on a face-on view. If I did, I think that it would approximate the overall angle of that yellow line.

The following capture photo taken from a birds-eye view swing video may help you make a point.

I have placed a red X over the position of L5 and C7 vertebra (based on my best guesstimation as a person with a BSc degree in anatomy and a MD degree).

I have not drawn connecting lines because I think that the spine spirals too much (especially in the mid-upper thoracic spine region). However, it cannot be too far from an imaginary straight line drawn between those two points.

I am sure that you have stood behind a golfer at the end-backswing position and run your finger up his spine to get an idea of how the spine spirals.

Jeff.

For reference only...might be or might not be useful...

Yoda - here is another series of images that you may enjoy.

The two red dots were placed approximately over L5 and C7, and the green dotted line is simply a straight line joining those two points.

It may look like the spine is tilting left. However, that is only because one is looking at a three-dimensional motion (viewed from an angle) as a 2-dimensional image representation. Conceptually, I have no reason to believe that the spine angle tilt changes during the backswing action - even though the spine is spiraling in space.

Jeff.