I would like to approach this thread further...

Right Forearm Takeaway/Pickup.

ANY onplane backstroke nessesitates the right forearm to lift the secondary hinge in the hinge assembly located at the left shoulder. As the pivot turns, the right forearm lifts up the primary lever assembly and it does this by using the plane line as its guide (tracing along the plane line).

If their was no right forearm 'pickup' on the entire backstroke as the pivot transported the power package, the clubhead wouldn't get 3 foot off the ground if your lucky and would create a very bent plane line.

The ideal is to always maintain its relationship to the plane line, just like it is ideal for a snooker/pool player to maintain the cue on a line straight back and straight through (usually on a vertical plane). With the shoulder turn takeaway - you lose the precision and then you are forced to pick up with the right forearm later in the golf stroke and try to re-establish the plane line. Bad snooker/pool players take it offplane or off line and they usually can never re-establish it - just like it is for hacks at golf...

It has absolutely nothing to do with not cocking the right wrist. It has everything to do with the all encompassing, imperative maintainance of the inclined plane. Those who do not teach the right forearm pickup, do not really teach plane.

I want to FIRST say (so as to make things clear)...

That a RFT is fine (obviously).....see David Toms, Freddie Couples, etc.

....

But what about Hogan, Snead, Nelson, John Daly, Tiger, Phil, Ernie, etc. etc. etc.

(or anyone who anyone would happen to teach who swings with anything other than a RFT and hits it to a tour level...or a level of these guys above)

Would you change them?

I mean, I understand adherance to principle...but man.....you have options....and some things just work. (for some people)

...

The right forearm takeaway has been greatly misunderstood especially by those from the Rocky site via watching Brians very mistaken video on it.

Actually most in that list do actually use the right forearm to pickup the left arm so the secondary lever stays on A plane at startup at varing extents - Tiger and Phil btw are usually perfectly onplane at start-up hence using the plane line as their guide - conciously or subconciously. If you want to take it offplane with a shoulder turn takeaway, read leadbetters "the golf swing"....

Remember its a one piece stroke like an ocean liner. With the shoulder turn takeaway, the stroke goes like this.... Ok I just start back with only my pivot/my shoulders - ok im moving now.... oh wait if I keep doing this I won't hit the ball 20 yards, quick quick Right forearm pick me up....

Ps - another point I want to raise, it has absolutely nothing at all to do with pivot centers

Rocky site lol.

Could you explain the misunderstandings?

Yes I realize the right forearm lifts at some point even in those strokes Matthew....

But those guys do not do a "Right Forearm Pickup" as it's commonly taught and referred to in TGM.

C'mon man....Tiger Woods? John Daly? Phil? etc. etc.

"From Address, lift your right forearm back, up, and in....take the club straight up the Turned Shoulder Plane. (with the right forearm)" (and straight down)

That's what I'm talking about.

...

Now I'm not saying that this kind of stroke (that all those pros use) "IS WHAT YOU MUST TEACH!"...

I'm just saying that it's obviously an option.

The only other justification is that all these guys (Hogan, Snead, Nelson, John Daly, Tiger, Phil, Ernie...+ more) would be much better than they already are. (if their backswings are that inferior)

...

And what I wrote above is how I understand how a "Right Forearm Takeaway" or "Right Forearm Pickup" is normally taught or thought of.

Im doing that with this thread...

Look at this picture of Tiger...



That right forearm has lifted the primary lever assembly via the secondary hinge of the hinge assembly - (btw that isn't a metaphor).... otherwise it wouldn't be onplane...this cannot be done in any ANY other way...

What if I was to say that you could use a right forearm takeaway with any plane shift variation.... The right forearm takeaway is manditory, the plane shift variation is a variation - one that has got its own particular hazards in terms of getting to the turned shoulder plane at the top of the backstroke. You could very well double shift and still use a right forearm takeaway....or quadruple shift for that matter.... you can even cock your right wrist (which alters the forearms relation to the clubshaft) but still the only way that primary lever assembly is going upwards and still maintain the plane of the secondary lever assembly with its straight line relationship to the plane line is via the right forearm picking it up.... Ok so now we got that myth out the way.

The shoulder turn takeaway is not neither advisable or even an orthadox looking procedure IMO and this is not the procedure most commonly used on tour.

We've been here before. We know the "Shoulder Turn Takeaway" Brian teaches is not the one defined in The Golfing Machine, since it does not involve a curved Plane Shift (i.e. Bent Plane Line) when done properly. Do a search on his site.

Confused
 

Guys i use the shoulder turn takeaway cause it gives me a much better feeling of 'swinging' the club back, but surely i can still use the right forearm pickup AS WELL to trace the correct plane line?

I've seen his video clip and he is way way offbase. In it he said that the reason that Homer taught the right forearm takeaway was to not to cock the right wrist... no mention of the onplane functions of the primary lever assembly having to move upwards against the vertical plane of the hinge action (the thing that isn't a metaphor, but defines specific left arm planes). He mentions pivot centers for each, which is a myth that he has created. It is not about what powers what - it is about being onplane or offplane. To be onplane like Tiger Woods, Phil Mickelson...etc, that right forearm has to lift the primary lever assembly via the secondary hinge.

It is NOT that weird thing he was doing when demonstrating. Brian is a GSED, and he answered a question based on golfing machine terminology and then got it so wrong...

It is nothing to do with what you may feel powers the backstroke. The pivot is responcible to transport the power package and the right forearm role is to keep the club onplane using the plane line as its guide by tracing along it with the right forefinger. This is the only way your going to be onplane....

In other sports where the plane is easy to see, no one would even be debating. In snooker/pool no one debates whether it is advantageous to take the cue back and through on a straight line however when that plane becomes inclined like in golf suddenly its ok to bring it offplane... and that is nuts!

Ahh, okay i get it.

Cheers.