No Angled assumes Angled. Don't understand your question. If you mean to ask can I see Horizontal being employed by a Hitter then I say yes. Absolutely . But I see two opposite ends of a spectrum and a middle ground. Not two lists.

The only thing arrogant hungry bear is you name dropping and claiming that homer's physics were wrong with absolutely diddly squat to back it up THAT is arrogance

Not really. What I am talking is the mechanics of the wedges that transitions from loading to hinging in the simplest, and least disruptive (compensated) way. Some other thread some other time- It's too hot here today! literal and figurative.

hb

I think the line of thinking goes like this:

HB and I say that the club face is closed by the golfer.

You and whip says that we must be into manipulating hands action - not that there's anything wrong with, since Hogan etc did that.

HB invites to compare angled hinge, which is what Hogan did quite often and also a lot of other greats, with a 100% swinger's dual horizontal hinge action and asks: Which club face is rotated most? The "hands manipulated" or the one where CF is supposed to do everything? The answer is that the pattern which is regarded as having the least manipulation has the most delayed and rapid club face rotation through the release & impact.

And that is a paradox.

I don't think this is a fair assessment, whip. HB is looking for the truth. He has been around for a while, he doesn't take any short cuts and is a very dignified contributor at LBG.

I don't see the paradox which makes me think Im not following you Bernt. Please elaborate .... I want to know. If you ever goofed with a swingers flail you'd learn to love that rapid roll , its powerful. Transfer power as Homer called it. Or a farmers flail ....woosh.

I have always seen horizontal as a faster rate of closure generally speaking . The rate of closure however doesn't define the two hinge actions , to my mind. They are different geometrically. Closing with no layback vs closing with layback to varying degrees depending upon plane angle. They produce different ball responses. You could Horizontal and "roll the wedges " fast with Snap Release or Slow with Full Sweep . Horizontal could roll slower than some Angled rate of wedge roll if you will theoretically. Could it not?

Is the rate of wedge roll the hinge action determinant? I don't think so.


Im actually open to the idea that Hinge Actions are learned .

Horizontal is free wheeling... wooosh . Properly executed it will not hook. Though there is a tendency towards pulls or draws. Over rotation. But that is not "properly executed". Tendency towards less shaft lean maybe too. Smaller divots ... Its a different flail action .

Contribute facts not misinformation

Hogan did not use manipulated hands swinging he angled hinges sometimes most times not

anyone
 

How do U know Hogan used angled hinge?

hb

Because he did u can see it

OB,

I was doing a final touch on my response to this when I by accident closed the page. Damned keyboard...

I recognize and agree with your description of dual horizontal vs angle hinge. And yes, I do the dual horizontal from time to time. If I really need dependable distance and I don't quite trust the angled hinge I try to crank the gyro and just let it rip. And sometimes with success.

Some of my comments in this thread about the closing action was written in the context of the demo that HK did, with club head on a string. I don't see any possibility of CF driven turn & roll in the human golf stroke, where the face is pointing at the sky before the release for a swinger and out of the plane for a angled hinge swinger or a hitter.

I don't dismiss that the swinger closes the face by simply holding on to the club, but the force that creates the turn & roll is still delivered by the golfer's hands.

I can't recall ever seeing footage of Hogan where there's no layback after impact. Nor have I seen footage where he displays the typical swinger's finish swivel. And his hands & club face alignment just before the release has written "don't let the toe outrace the heel" written all over.

You need to put up some serious evidence to convince me that Hogan used a horizontal hinge most of the time.

ANYONE else
 

. .

The burden of proof is on u sir

Anyone Else
 

. .

Wrong. it is cf acting on the clubface because cf pulls objects in line and on plane with their cog this what the club is doing seeking it's cog and in so doing it closes as it seeks it

The nature of a sequenced release as dictated by cf longitudinal acceleration the club passively switches ends rotates over

No one "finish swivels" unless the shaft is dead on plane that is what he finish swivel is no one finishes that way

I wasn't talking to you. I don't think you know what CF is and does. Besides, opinions stated as facts without any substantial backup is a turnoff for me.

Show us the evidence that Hogan used horizontal hinge most of the time. Then we have something to talk about.

Good reply
 

Had we just LOOKED up one subject heading we would have a much shorter and less tedious thread.

http://www.lynnblakegolf.com/forum/thread8672.html

Read it with care- with particular attention to #6

HB

Hb i really don't care about that post but cool Lynn was only showing that it is not just te club but the entire primary lever. What does that have to do with te fact that cf closes the clubface. Bernt r I'm going to disagree with you I dot really care if u were addressing me because I'm looking at information posted to see if it's right and u stating that cf doesn't create a closing face naturally doesnt jive with me you say show the proof with hogan show me your proof hogan was a swinger, they horizontal hinge so u better show me... And you and hb claiming homer is wrong saying it's not arrogant to call him wrong because hb is such a great contributor to Lynn blake gimme a f'n break the burden of proof is on u sirs. That's what this whole forum is about homers great work seems yours are more keen on proving him wrong only problem is you won't :) get a clue homer spent his life doing this this is just your hobby.

Everyone thinks they are smarter than homer Kelley if only he were still around I always think I'm gonna see him hitting balls at some random
Driving range experimenting like i do

This is unfortunate guys.

I have on my wish list a desire to start a thread where we take everything Homer had to say about impact dynamics and try to piece it all together with diagrams. Geometry of the circle , hinge action , ball position , face alignment etc etc. I don't think its ever been put together fully .

We'd need guys like HB and Bernt with their scientific knowledge and Whip with his knowledge of TGM , Lynn and Ted of course to vet the thing. Mike O., Bucket , Daryl might make an appearance. First and foremost we'd need Lynn's participation .

What produces Horizontal or Angled wouldn't matter . Basic plane compliance would just be assumed in the diagrams.

It would show the ball reaction to variations in the hinge action of an angular motion on an inclined plane .

Most guys don't even get grip rotation.

Too bad we missed the boat on meeting Homer Kelley, but thank God Lynn Blake shares and translates what he learned from him with us, as well as sharing great video insight from Tommy Tommesello and other folks who worked with Mr. Kelley...

:golf:

Kevin

FACT;
A golf club, swung on a flat inclined plane in a circular motion, generates NO force, cf or otherwise, that will align the face perpendicular to the base line or at any other place on the plane. NONE! And I will not ask you to prove otherwise because you or no one else can. NONE, Urban myth, folk lore, NO force. Get my point.? Subject complete.

The Hungry Bear.

I never said it aligns perpendicular it seeks it's cog what dint u understand about that. Fine have it your way dude

Whip,

You just said that CF closes the club face. Now you're saying it doesn't.

And you think you're smarter than HK....

Uh no I didn't?

Did you mean to say that? "Perpendicular to the base line" sounds like Vertical to me given any inclination to the angled plane. A truly vertical plane angle would be vertical and angled however. If you know what I mean.

Angled would show the club face square to the plane or visually the arc of approach , horizontal would see the face roll open and closed along the arc of ... ah forget it. Maybe your "any other place " covered all the possibilities . I dunno.

Where did Whip say he was smarter than Homer? The only person smarter than Homer is Darylll......uhhhhhhh heart attack.. uhhhhhhhhh I miss that crazy bastard...uhhhh

Gentleman could it be you guys are talking different cf's? Homers vs Newtons or whoever? Check the glossary. I don't believe they are one and the same.

Whip said: "Everyone think they are smarter than Homer Kelley".

Whip is part of "everyone".

My book is in a container somewhere on the Atlantic Ocean at the moment so I am unable to check it. But I did check this thoroughly earlier. HK's definition is golf specific. There's nothing wrong with it, Newtonian wise. Not in the book as far as I can see, but this is one of the areas where TGM doesn't spell it out, where there's room for interpretation, and where some of the interpretations being used have flaws.

I can say more about this later, if I'm not stigmatized as believing I think I'm smarter than Homer. Right now I have a golf match to catch.

How is it erroneous?

Wow this is the type of post that would cause me to not address any of your future posts are you serious?

Check this article

http://people.stfx.ca/smackenz/Publi...20dynamics.pdf

Although it does not exactly address the case at hand, it shows that, in simulations, even if one does not actively supinate in the downswing the club face closes, and even can come back square if the club starts under the plane of the hands (if the other power sources are timed accordingly). I have to re-read the article to understand the reason.

What they don't understand is the physics of swinging and hitting creates their geometry.

I just got the coolest golf bag of all time !!!!! Fred couples Bridgestone Ryder cup captain edition autographed staff bag

Playing in the long beach open next week my first pro event

You should know.

I was just playing your game for a change.