best way to stay on plane
 

In your opinion what do you think is the best way to keep the back swing on plane, rft, stt? I seem to go a good job of keeping it on plane with a rft but feel as if there is no club face rotation

Depends what kinda Plane you want really.

I think the stock answer would be that a RFPickup naturally would be easiest to keep the club going up and down the TSP....

But then again Nicklaus I think did a STT on-Plane (with some right forearm lift in there too of course....doesn't work otherwise)....same with "old Tiger."

...

And then again....a lot of people are Double Shifters/Single Shifters.

One of the biggest reasons people get off plane is that they let their hands move 'out' on the backswing, usually right off the bat - rather than the hands going back, up and in.

This results in a 'lift and roll' move where the hands are too far outside, above plane, while the clubshaft and clubhead are likely too inside and underplane (visually).

Practice your takeaway with the shaft along a picnic bench, which will let you 'allow' the clubface rotation and still stay on plane - tracing a straight plane line

Plane
 

How many of you have actually built a PLANE(Plastic Sheet) like Mr. Kelley had?

I've got two dowels.Perfect if you know where to put them.

Plane Lasers...

learn how YOU have to swing to trace that straight line, however you have too.

Don't have a plane-anything.

I will point my club at whatever straight line I can fine....

Carpet line....cartpath line.....line/crack in the cement....etc.

I would say stt, since the movement of the shoulders, especially in rotating, varies much less than those of the arms and hands.

thanks guys
and a question about the rfp,
do you try and keep your right elbow close to your side in the beggining of it so your right elbow bends, or do you just let it fly. In the RFP it feels like no club face rotation

Yep, Lives in my living room!
 

Alot of fun to be had just standing in the plane! I listened to Homer on one of the audio downloads from Croker site and felt inspired.

Feeling the plane around takeaway , impact is pretty easy with a small plane board but feeling where it goes after impact towards finish swivel ... that made a difference. I had been steering and now have starting using finish swivel to get the shaft on plane again after impact.

Mine can be assembled or dismantled in 5 mins so no hassle to use really!

Obvious question
 

BDog,
How about sharing the construction plans with us??

Plane
 

I remember Mr. Kelley talking about the PLASTIC PLANE he built... the one in the book. He said something like... "You won't believe what it feels like, until you get into that Plane." He advised building one for yourself.

If, however, you are not having a problem with PLANE, and maybe have an unusual, but effective shift, for example, the PLASTIC PLANE may better be left alone.

Hmm? I sense confusion. Answer a question. It's not a trick question so don't get paranoid. It's also multiple choice.

First, get into adjusted address. Now stand straight up with arms parallel to the floor. Next, do a RFT but DO NOT move your shoulders. Here comes the question. How far to the right did your left arm/hand travel across your chest?

No one answer except shootin4par.

A. 9"
B. 18"
C. 24"
D. 30"

I will say B
the left hand is about 18 inches away from center and the left arm is at about a 20* angle

I was afraid of that (now I have to write this long answer :) ), but the answer is A. This may be the root of your issue about keeping the Clubshaft On-Plane during the backswing. Your power Package has move away from an "in front" of body position. You have a broken Triangle. Substitute your right arm for a towel placed in your left arm pit at one end and held in your right hand at address position in the other with the towel pulled taught. Keep pulling on the towel while testing how far you can move your right hand away from center. How far can you move your right hand now?

Swingers version of the RFT.

Notice, from an Adjusted Address position and without a Club, that you can move your hands (pretend you're gripping a Club) to the right almost any distances identified in the answers A through D (without Extensor Action). Also, keep in mind that you can create almost any Path away from the ball. You can move your hands away in front of you or pull them behind you or make them go straight back away from you. And, you can make them travel Backward, Inward and Upward simultaneously. However, the RFT is a special way.

To get the feel and visually see the procedure you'll need a chair (like a folding chair) that has a back about as high as your hips. Stand behind the chair and assume an Adjusted Address posture (without a club) so that the butt end of your Left Hand lies on the face of the chair back. Using light Extensor Action pressure (#1 PP), push down gently so that your Left Wrist Flattens and your Right Wrist Bends. If your Left Wrist Arches slightly, then you're pushing in the wrong direction. Push gently down in the direction of your left arm. Once you accomplish the Flat Left Wrist, then Turn your hands a little to the right without letting the butt end of the Left Hand come off the back of the chair back (it will rock to the right and stay on the back of the chair). So the back of the right hand needs to move a little toward the back of the chair as you rotate. It's only a slight rotation. If you had a Club in your hands the Clubhead would only have traveled about two feet and the Clubshaft still points toward the base line of the inclined plane.

Next, slide your hands to the right a few more inches while continuing to turn your hands until your hands are in the line of sight to your right foot. Because your hands are simultaneously moving and Turning slightly to the right, they appear to only turn slightly more. That's the RFT. You have structure. Your right forearm has become fanned opened. You reestablished the flying wedges and turned your hands.

At this point, the end of the RFT you should have created enough structure so that any further motion will start your shoulders to turn. Continue to the Top or End, whichever is your procedure and you should have accomplished a TSP.

But, and this is the TGM fun part, the RFT should be accomplished with Extensor Action alone. Train you extensor action to complete this procedure in one simple move integrated seamlessly into the backswing. :)

sorry that you had to type all that, but I appreciate it I seems as extensor action is the missing ingrediant, you probably could have gotten away with posting that I try it again with some extensor action and report back again. once again thanks.
but no one has seemed to touch the no club face rotation question?

No problemo

Same here,
 

I'm real new to TGM, in fact just finished the little yellow book. I'm experimenting with the RFT and I also noticed a lack of face rotation in s the start up. Feels like I'm holding it square to target or hooding. This is really different for me cuz I've always done the old one piece takeaway with focus on the shoulders.

Further to this, Homer mentions "fanning" but I'm not certain of the motion he's describing, during start-up or down swing?

Found it in the archives, yet I'm still foggy. When I start up I feel like I can trace the plane line to parallel but the face is closed.

"The Fanning of the Right Forearm occurs during Start Up for both Punch and Pitch Basic Strokes. There is no Fanning with Push Basic"

CW

Millrat,

I am also new to TGM but I try to pay attention to detail...especially in the AMAZING videos that we are lucky enough to have here at LynnBlakeGolf.com. One thing I can recall, which is relavent to your question, is from video #2 with Yoda and Jeff Hull. About 9 minutes in, just before the cows interrupt Yoda as he is dispensing his priceless basic motion knowledge he is actually demonstates this right forearm fanning.

You probably have the video...if not download it, and get the answer you seek from Yoda himself. The best source possible on the planet Earth.

When I was on the golf course today I found this right forearm fanning motion very useful as the end of my backswing for short pitch shots. It also was an integral part of my backswing on the very best full swings that I had.

You typed it - so least I could do was to quote it again - it really seems to make sense so it is worth repeating! - thanks Daryl.

I am not quite sure where i am with the chair bit... but the correct direction for pp1 and using pressure points and extensor action seems to work. Thanks.

This is a super old post but just wanted to say thanks. I thought I was on plane until I read this. It has helped my ball striking. Just like EdZ said, I was right off plane from the start!!

LBG Gold Mine
 

Congratulations on your discovery, curtisj. The archives are chock full of such golden nuggets, and the good news is . . .

Even after you mine it, the gold remains for others!

:)

That picnic bench brings back some great memories of Pine Needles, When Yoda demonstrated the power of a straight plane line.

The best way to stay on plane IMHO is to trace the straight plane line. Your educated right forearm will guide the flying wedge assembly just perfectly.

Best archives on the internet. Member driven and Yoda taught.

Tracing the Straight Plane Line
 

Thanks, Mike.

And remember to include that #3 Pressure Point (first joint of the right forefinger) with your Right Forearm Tracing. This concept brings the entire Right Forearm Flying Wedge -- not just the Right Hand or Clubshaft -- into Impact (7-3).

PP#3 is the king of all pressure points- its the clubhead. And you don't hit the ball with the clubhead. You hit the ball with the preesure points in your hands- namely the King PP- Number three.

What if I don't feel any pressure (at least I don't think so) in my #3?

Thanks


PS I don't flip it

Ghost Whisperer
 

If you are swinging you may not feel a lot of pressure in #3 . . . the pressure typically loads on the knuckle so it is moving all around. Don't feel like a doofus if you don't feel it. I don't feel it a whole bunch either. Homer said that Lag Pressure is measured in ounces not pounds. So you have SENSITIVE pressure . . . . A Hitter may feel it stronger. But if you don't feel a bunch as a Swinger A. It's OK. B. Swing with your eyes closed and you'll be more aware of the subtle messages your #3 pressure point is sending.

Also spends some time listening to #4.

Holla.

Hi Bucket,

Man, I simply haven't the time to read the 7Th Edition. Would you be kind and tell us what page that statement can be found. I promise to study that page ASAP. :)

Truly,
Daryl

That ain't in the book . . . but he said it . . . on tape . . . well prior to the 7th.

6-B-0 GENERAL page 66, 6th edition

...A hanging Driver weighs less than one pound, but at arms length the deltoids (2-M-3) are supporting about four pounds – considering the arm weight as negligible. But with arm and club parallel to the ground, the Wrist is supporting close to six pounds and the deltoids about ten.

These are static weight calculations. I was just thinking that if we consider the forces placed upon the Hands (Clamps) generated from Pivot Lag, and recalculate the weight of Pressure in the Hands during the Downswing, It would seem that the answer may be more than ounces. I was curious as to how the "Ounces" are calculated. Perhaps he was refering to something else? Maybe he was thinking of a swing in Slow-M-O-T-I-O-N? Maybe a Chip Shot?

I haven't heard the Tape, but if you have time, maybe you can shed some light on this. :laughing9

Gosh, I wonder how the people who revised the 7th edition missed this. Merely having some indication of the amount of pressure on the right forefinger to sense the Lagging Clubhead would be invaluable to help guide someone. I know from experience that dragging a wet mop places about 20 pounds of pressure on my right forefinger. Perhaps I'm doing something wrong??

Furthermore, PP#2 and PP#3 are contact points thru which the Clubshaft is Flexed during the Startdown. I wonder if ounces of pressure could do that or maintain the shaft flex thru Impact? Hmm?

Hey Bucket said it. Check out the video PP3 where are you? PP3 can be direct or passive but it is there and you need to sense it. Its a journey and that incubator needs to be carry along with you. But I believe as Yoda taugh, that pp3 is the clubhead- and the beginning of the sweet spot plane to the clubface. use it wellCurtisj76

D,

You know about the menance that stalks all Lag and Drag right? there are much more interial forces acting on a mop . . . Overacceleration typically is caused by adding too much load to the system. You have to have a structure that can support the load . . . I'd say if you feel 20 lbs . . . you bust the structure.

The Book should come with audio.

Well said Bucket. I agree that too much #3 PP can cause Clubhead Throwaway. However I’m just not sure about the Structure suffering from too much pressure on the #3 PP. Perhaps you can explain where and when the Structural breakdown occurs?

Also, if it's not too much trouble, help me out with one more thing. If I swing a driver at 107 mph and I use about 12 ounces of pressure, should I have 12 ounces of pressure when I swing the driver at 50 mph or should the pressure be less?

Throw away is a combo all misused pressure points and being to handsy without respecting your rhythm. Pushing the shaft and not driving pp 3 with the right hand is a disaster. PP3 can not break the left half of the flying wedge so it can only push against a flat left wrist.

overaccelaration hangover?
 

A dose of reality. I am 5.9, and weighed 160 in college. So not the biggest/strongest guy in town. I had a swing that was based on the full tilt principle...close your eyes and force...in order to keep up with the gorillas out there. It looked under control, but every sinew was twanging! Finding the maximum load my flying wedges has been a bitter sweet kinda thing. I have it under reasonable control...for the first time...but I feel as though I have lost some yards albeit "wild yards." Has anyone else experienced the same thing? This all reminds me of what my father said to me after my first range session "Stop coming out of your shoes, boy!" I used to live the occassional 300 + sunday best! The reality check is that I am swinging as "hard" as I realistically can. Overaccelaration is an opiate!

Thank you. It's clear to me that you interpreted Buckets "Breakdown" of the Left Wrist as what he meant by the Breakdown of Structure. I read the Throwaway problem but thought that he was talking about something additional and something else in the Power Package Structure that would Breakdown if too much #3 Pressure Point was applied.

Perhaps you can tell me in "Ounces", the difference in #3 PP pressure between a 100 MPH swing and a 50 MPH swing???

I hear what you're saying. I totally agree. But I thought you were like 90 years old. That puts you in college during WWII. :laughing9

Greenhorn
 

Nah...I am still a whipper-snapper! my mom tells me I was "born old" but she added that I have a "look that improves with age!

Remember it is SUSTAIN the Lag . . . not increase the Lag . .. Mike O will argue this point. . . you can increase the Lag but I don't think you want to go nutz with it. The problem lies in cranking up the Lag Pressure really earlier and really hard and you have too much speed too early and end up chasing it instead of driving it.

Homer advocated having a "stock" lag pressure and then adding/subtracting to hit different distances. You are definitely going to have less pressure hitting a driver 50 vs. 270 or whatever.

Probably what you should do is figure out what your sustainable pressure is. Hit the ball with as much pressure as you can put on it. Keep backing off and find your most "consistent" amount of pressure. You want a pressure that allows you hit the ball with authority but control your dispersion. Lotsa times LESS may be be MORE and may be better too.

Experiment with it.

It can make you break down . . . but you can also lose the stress in the shaft and lose the pressure in your pressure points AND NOT BREAKDOWN YOUR ALIGNMENTS . . . BUT YOU STILL THREW THE LAG (PRESSURE). So much lag that you can't sustain the pressure.