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-   -   Who in the world is this freakin' Hacker??? (http://www.lynnblakegolf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4014)

12 piece bucket 11-15-2006 05:39 PM
Who in the world is this freakin' Hacker???
 


This guy SUX!!!!!

Check it out in motion . . .

Bagger Lance 11-15-2006 05:48 PM
Home Spinning
 
This video was shot by Trig during a personal lesson on a cold day over two years ago. He had his handheld sony, no tripod, and if you watch the video he was moving around alot. The video is in our gallery.

Yoda 12-02-2006 03:25 PM
What's My Line?
 
Ahhh, that would be me, 12piece. Unfortunately, the lines you see were incorrectly drawn by a competitor (to 'prove' a point) and thus misrepresent what is actually happening.

I've asked Mathew to get the job done right, and he will soon post an accurate version.

Mathew 12-02-2006 04:57 PM




I tried my best to sort out the distortions made. The adjustments have made it closer to the reality but again you have to remember the picture is of a really horrible quality standard and the camera was not set up to get the clearest view without perspective problems....

Although I have to say that you should pay close attention to the grass line on the first picture. The uneven tilt between pics 1 and 2, and the even tilt between 2 and 3, whilst I sorted out the pics so the line between the feet was directly horizontal using the second picture - you may want to notice that the exact same adjustment on the first picture is not. It could just be the handheld camera changing slightly...

The lines of the tripod are just extremely poorly drawn -- for width, they should reference the heels and not the toes (especially the 'opened' left toe).

Now if I took out this tilt of the first picture - the first picture of the head would veer probably right on the center of the tripod....

The camera isn't even properly face on or level, the quality is just terribly awful and ghosty sequence that only someone with an 'agenda' would use.

comdpa 12-02-2006 09:51 PM
The Point that is Proved
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoda
Ahhh, that would be me, 12piece. Unfortunately, the lines you see were incorrectly drawn by a competitor (to 'prove' a point) and thus misrepresent what is actually happening.

I've asked Mathew to get the job done right, and he will soon post an accurate version.
If a competitor has to go through this to prove a point, the only point it proves is that LBG is doing something right!

birdie_man 12-02-2006 10:47 PM
Here is the original on Youtube:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=0dwfd7tc_E8

Yoda 12-02-2006 10:57 PM
The Stationary Post
 
1-L- #1

"The Stationary Post (player's head) accurately returns the Clubhead to the ball (Centered Arc)."

1-L- #2

"The Post may turn (Pivot) but it does not 'sway' or 'bob.'"

Now....

You either accept these Foundation Stones of The Golfing Machine -- axioms, actually -- or you do not.

Some do.

Some don't.

As always, it is the player's option.

The great Harry Vardon had something to say on this subject.

Stay tuned.

Yoda 12-02-2006 11:47 PM
Back To the Future With Harry Vardon
 
From The Complete Golfer (1905) by Harry Vardon.

Open Champion, 1896, 1898, 1899, 1903.

American Champion, 1900.
"The head should be kept perfectly motionless from the time of the address until the ball has been sent away and is well on its flight. The least deviation from this rule means a proportionate danger of disaster.

When a drive has been badly foozled, the readiest and most usual explanation is that the eye has been taken off the ball, and the wise old men who have been watching shake their heads solemnly, and utter that parrot-cry of the links, "Keep your eye on the ball." Certainly this is a good and neccessary rule so far as it goes; but I do not believe that one drive in a hundred is missed because the eye has not been kept on the ball.

On the other hand, I believe that one of the most fruitful causes of failure with the tee shot is the moving of the head. Until the ball has gone, it should, as I say, be as nearly perfectly still as possible, and I would have written that it should not be moved to the extent of a sixteeenth of an inch, but for the fact that it is not human to be so still, and golf is always inclined to the human side."
:salut:

But, if you want, go ahead and move your head.

Back and forth.

Or up and down.

Or -- double your pleasure -- do both!

Or neither.

Your call.

Trane 12-03-2006 01:02 AM
Thanks Yoda
 
I love your comment on, "Double your pleasure and do both!!!":laughing9

Your support information from sources such as Homer himself and Mr. Vardon are more than enough, but I would like to point out when I'm at a PGA golf event live, I'm amazed at how many of the pros heads do not move at all!

Also, Ted Fort's water bottle movie would be very difficult if you had some sway or turning around the base of the neck.

Just some insights from a TGM youngling.

Mathew 12-03-2006 04:22 AM


To draw the lines correctly the line from inside the heel to the inside of the heel - it must be perfectly horizontal as you can manage when setting up the camera.

I untilted the picture and drew a perfectly horizontal line and then a drew a vertical line directly half way... then I drew a line vertically from the tip of the false tripod and then drew a line between the two reference points which show the amount of tilt (as they were horizontal before the picture was untilted). Yes, that few degrees out and you might as well have not drawn the lines in the first place.

I often wonder if alot of people think that pictures aren't easily be fudged....and it is easy to do if you don't do them right either by ignorance or other reasons.

As a point (and I could do a better job if this wasn't a superfast attempt) I wanted to show how you can manipulate anything if you want to. This is the equivalent of the original sequence!

Hey Lynn, your head moved forwards....:laughing1




PS: I do plan to go over the original video at some point and I WILL remove all doubt if any 'deliberate' doctoring that cannot be part of any ignorance is found...I'll do it over next couple of days if can...

mrodock 12-03-2006 12:50 PM
What I have a difficult time comprehending is how Brian can take a simple concept such as pivot-centered tripod and completely misinterpret it by drawing lines at the top and at impact for the spine. I think all but the newest members here understand the term pivot-centered tripod and understand that it is not about spine or axis tilt. A lateral shifting of the hips in the downswing DOES NOT mean someone is incapable of adhering to the pivot-centered tripod concept.

Matt

birdie_man 12-03-2006 04:03 PM
Interesting point of view Matt. (although I am not sure how drawing axis tilt shows a misinterpretation of anything)

And I'm hesitant to get into this....

But this golfers head is not precisely between his feet throughout the stroke in either analysis. (and is not Stationary)

What that all means and how much weight to put on it is the question I guess.

Here is the original on Youtube:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=0dwfd7tc_E8

...

EdZ 12-04-2006 04:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoda
From The Complete Golfer (1905) by Harry Vardon.

Open Champion, 1896, 1898, 1899, 1903.

American Champion, 1900.

"The head should be kept perfectly motionless from the time of the address until the ball has been sent away and is well on its flight. The least deviation from this rule means a proportionate danger of disaster.

When a drive has been badly foozled, the readiest and most usual explanation is that the eye has been taken off the ball, and the wise old men who have been watching shake their heads solemnly, and utter that parrot-cry of the links, "Keep your eye on the ball." Certainly this is a good and neccessary rule so far as it goes; but I do not believe that one drive in a hundred is missed because the eye has not been kept on the ball.

On the other hand, I believe that one of the most fruitful causes of failure with the tee shot is the moving of the head. Until the ball has gone, it should, as I say, be as nearly perfectly still as possible, and I would have written that it should not be moved to the extent of a sixteeenth of an inch, but for the fact that it is not human to be so still, and golf is always inclined to the human side."

:salut:

But, if you want, go ahead and move your head.

Back and forth.

Or up and down.

Or -- double your pleasure -- do both!

Or neither.

Your call.

"If I moved my head I couldn't break 80" - Jack Nicklaus, Golf My Way video

"Keeping your head still during the swing is certainly easier said than done, a statement I make from experience. I have worked harder to master this than all of the other fundamentals put together. When I was 6 years old, my father told me to go ahead and hit the ball as hard as I wanted to so long as I kept my head still. When I say still, I mean exactly that, no movement upward, downward, or side to side allowed"

Arnold Palmer - "Play Great Golf - Mastering the Fundamentals of the Game" 1987

Toolish 12-04-2006 05:56 PM
Plenty of quotes from people saying that you need to keep the head still...but do they all really keep em still...or is it a seems as if type deal?

birdie_man 12-04-2006 08:08 PM
From what I have seen, Palmer and Nicklaus ARE pretty still.

I have not seen all that many Palmer sequences....but the ones I have seen I remember to be pretty Stationary. (in the head department)

As for position, Nicklaus very often seemed to have his head back of center some....at least for longer clubs. (which makes sense for a high ball hitter, and to me, for a long driver as well)

I'm not too sure about Palmer really...I would like to study some sequences...with long and short clubs...

Yoda 12-07-2006 11:06 PM
Just Do It
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toolish

Plenty of quotes from people saying that you need to keep the head still...but do they all really keep em still...or is it a seems as if type deal?
Do as the 'Greats' have done, Toolish. Heed the instruction of their own teachers -- often their fathers -- and, during your Stroke, keep your Head still.

Ignore all this hair-splitting 'Spine Center versus Head Center' controversy, and just do your best to keep your Head still from Address until well through Impact. It will help your game. Soon, 'staying still' will be a subconcious habit, you will Turn freely in both directions -- if you don't, it is a Pivot problem, not a Head problem -- and you won't have to worry about it anymore. Your Body will have become a Rotor and your Clubhead a 'Wrecking Ball.'

"The attempt and not the deed confounds us."

-- William Shakespeare

But this prescription is not license to become 'ball-bound.' Once the Ball is away, let your Head swivel with the Stroke and move toward your left side into the Finish.

Again quoting Harry Vardon:

"Keep your eye on the ball until you have hit it, but no longer. You cannot follow through properly with a long shot if your eye remains fastened on the ground. Hit the ball, and then let your eye pick it up in its flight as quickly as possible."

47range 02-16-2007 08:52 PM
Head Still
 
I actually can't believe that in the year 2007 with all the bio mechenical research that teachers are actually still advocating keeping you head still. There is not a person on the PGA Tour that does this. Some may say they do it but I would love to see someone post pictures of a head not moving in the swing.

Yoda 02-16-2007 10:34 PM
Heady Stuff
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 47range (Post 38839)

I actually can't believe that in the year 2007 with all the bio mechenical research that teachers are actually still advocating keeping you head still. There is not a person on the PGA Tour that does this. Some may say they do it but I would love to see someone post pictures of a head not moving in the swing.
For the record, swiveling the head on the neck is not "moving the head." That said, if you want to move your head, 47range, then have it. It's okay. After all, you're human. Just move it as little as possible.

Unless, of course, you want to move it a lot.

And that's okay, too.

Back and forth. Or up and down. Or both.

After all, it's your head.

And your swing.

Seriously, golf is all about having fun. And if Swaying and Bobbing is what makes you happy, then go right ahead and do it.

Curtis Strange swayed his way to two consecutive U.S. Open titles. Can't be all bad, right?

:)

47range 02-16-2007 10:45 PM
If it is common knowledge that you can play great golf with a head that moves, why make the statement keep your head still?

12 piece bucket 02-17-2007 12:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 47range (Post 38841)
If it is common knowledge that you can play great golf with a head that moves, why make the statement keep your head still?
What does the research say the head is supposed to do? How much should it move and which way?

Yoda 02-17-2007 12:38 AM
Centered Arc
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 47range (Post 38841)

If it is common knowledge that you can play great golf with a head that moves, why make the statement keep your head still?
It is a peculiarity of mine. :) I find that, properly understood, a steady head helps most people to play better golf.

It may surprise some to know that, in my teaching, I focus very little on the head. That's because when you swing correctly, the head has little tendency to move.

Something like this (Ernie Els):

http://youtube.com/watch?v=2Y3ptxpoM6w

6bmike 02-17-2007 02:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoda (Post 38844)
It is a peculiarity of mine. :) I find that, properly understood, a steady head helps most people to play better golf.

It may surprise some to know that, in my teaching, I focus very little on the head. That's because when you swing correctly, the head has little tendency to move.

Something like this:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=2Y3ptxpoM6w
Homer recomended a stationary head in 2-0-A-1. He also referred to this in 1-L-1 and -2.

It is one thing to swivel the head it is another to sway and bob the head. As Lynn mentioned Ballard moved Strange's head (s)way right.

"Precision is recognizing and reconciling minute differentiations."

The spine is not a rod. As it adjusts to the pivot, the head remains a stationary post. Bio-Mechanics prove this. If you think it is a straight rod, then you will have to prepare to move it right- way right and UP.

golfbulldog 02-18-2007 10:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoda (Post 38844)
It is a peculiarity of mine. :) I find that, properly understood, a steady head helps most people to play better golf.

It may surprise some to know that, in my teaching, I focus very little on the head. That's because when you swing correctly, the head has little tendency to move.

Something like this:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=2Y3ptxpoM6w
Interesting video, thanks for digging it out of Youtube vaults... for those not familiar with UK TV golf coverage in 1980s and 90s... the voice is ( or I am pretty certain it is) Alex Hay... a wee scot who used to copresent with Peter Allis much of the BBC TV golf.

I presume that it is the same Alex Hay who wrote the books which borrow/support much of TGM - do a search in the books section and there are many references to the author Alex Hay.

alex_chung 02-18-2007 11:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by golfbulldog (Post 38872)
Interesting video, thanks for digging it out of Youtube vaults... for those not familiar with UK TV golf coverage in 1980s and 90s... the voice is ( or I am pretty certain it is) Alex Hay... a wee scot who used to copresent with Peter Allis much of the BBC TV golf.

I presume that it is the same Alex Hay who wrote the books which borrow/support much of TGM - do a search in the books section and there are many references to the author Alex Hay.
That definitely sounds like Alex Hay. He was associated with the Woburn Golf Club for many years during his time with the Beeb and he was a teacher in his own right too writing many instruction books like you said.
Didn't realise that he had borrowed a few things from TGM either.
Alex

Amen Corner 02-18-2007 03:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by alex_chung (Post 38873)
That definitely sounds like Alex Hay. He was associated with the Woburn Golf Club for many years during his time with the Beeb and he was a teacher in his own right too writing many instruction books like you said.
Didn't realise that he had borrowed a few things from TGM either.
Alex
Is it not taken from Ernies video??? Was it "How to build a swing" or something like that. I recall that Mr Hay was the narrator.(is that the name?)

alex_chung 02-18-2007 06:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amen Corner (Post 38880)
Is it not taken from Ernies video??? Was it "How to build a swing" or something like that. I recall that Mr Hay was the narrator.(is that the name?)
I really don't know mate. Its not a video that I have seen so can't tell you if he did the narration or not.
Alex

Mathew 02-19-2007 01:37 AM
Ernie Els is a great example of a stationary head.

I often think the reason that players (even some of the tour players) develop their bad habit of their head moving downwards and backwards on the downstroke to varing degrees is because their vision and its changed perspective makes it phychologically easier to accept the longitudinal acceleration of the swingers stroke pattern that way....

KOC 02-19-2007 11:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amen Corner (Post 38880)
Is it not taken from Ernies video??? Was it "How to build a swing" or something like that. I recall that Mr Hay was the narrator.(is that the name?)
That is "How to Build a Classic Swing - Ernie Els"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRVumOGT97Y

tongzilla 03-04-2007 03:31 PM
Is it me or is Els' swing smoother back in those days.

Yoda 03-04-2007 03:40 PM
Welcome Back, Tongzilla!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tongzilla (Post 39359)

Is it me or is Els' swing smoother back in those days.

Good to see you back, Leo. I know your studies are keeping you busy. Thanks for posting! :salut:

Trig 03-05-2007 02:17 PM
No Oscar for me?
 
I guess I won't win any academy awards for my film making. Sorry everyone.

But the guy who drew the lines should win one for "best special effects". If you look closely, these effects will lead you to believe Yoda is actually doing a cart wheel in the film. I am hear to tell you all - I was there and he did not do a cart wheel!

- Trig :laughing9


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