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-   -   10-11-0-3 Quarter Turn of #3 PP and The First Knuckle and back again??? (http://www.lynnblakegolf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4098)

12 piece bucket 12-08-2006 11:07 PM
10-11-0-3 Quarter Turn of #3 PP and The First Knuckle and back again???
 
10-11-0-3 PRESSURE POINT #3
Remember, with Swinging, Pressure Point #3 must have a Feel of being rotated a quarter turn at The Top with Standard Wrist Action (10-18-A), just and only because of Loading Action direction – no actual movement of anything. So from The Top to Release, the Loading put the top side of the Clubshaft against the first knuckle of the forefinger. But with Hitting there must be NO change whatever.

When the Wrists “Swivel” back to the Vertical Position (4-C-3) during Standard Wrist Action (10-18-A) per 6-B-3. Pressure Point #3 may – but need not – return to its “strong” position (Aft side of the Clubshaft). That is – if left in “Top-of-the-Clubshaft” position it becomes a Weak Single Action Grip (10-2-A) and the interchangeable equivalent to 10-2-C for Swingers. But both are improper for Hitters using Single Wrist Action (10-18-C).
So basically if you go past TOP (Top of the Line Delivery Path) then your club shall load on the top of the first knuckle . . . . got that thar . . .

Then Homer throws us a curve ball . . . it CAN move back to the Strong #3 position again back to the aft side of the shaft rather than the top . . . but it don't have to.

What the heck difference does it make? Any?

So now if the Swinger goes PAST Top and thus the pressure point MOVES and then it COULD move back again OR NOT . . . How in the heck does the Swinger Monitor the #3 Pressure Point if the dang thang is moving all over the place????

Wouldn't be better for the Swinger to Monitor #2 . . . since of course it is the Left Wrist that is being Loaded??? Why is #2 the little bastard forgot Pressure Point?

Wassup wassup wassup????

EdZ 12-08-2006 11:27 PM
Sounds like swinging with 10-2-D, Alex Morrison style..... or Daly.

Mike O 12-09-2006 01:28 AM
Medication
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 12 piece bucket
10-11-0-3 PRESSURE POINT #3
Remember, with Swinging, Pressure Point #3 must have a Feel of being rotated a quarter turn at The Top with Standard Wrist Action (10-18-A), just and only because of Loading Action direction – no actual movement of anything. So from The Top to Release, the Loading put the top side of the Clubshaft against the first knuckle of the forefinger. But with Hitting there must be NO change whatever.

When the Wrists “Swivel” back to the Vertical Position (4-C-3) during Standard Wrist Action (10-18-A) per 6-B-3. Pressure Point #3 may – but need not – return to its “strong” position (Aft side of the Clubshaft). That is – if left in “Top-of-the-Clubshaft” position it becomes a Weak Single Action Grip (10-2-A) and the interchangeable equivalent to 10-2-C for Swingers. But both are improper for Hitters using Single Wrist Action (10-18-C).
So basically if you go past TOP (Top of the Line Delivery Path) then your club shall load on the top of the first knuckle . . . . got that thar . . .

Then Homer throws us a curve ball . . . it CAN move back to the Strong #3 position again back to the aft side of the shaft rather than the top . . . but it don't have to.

What the heck difference does it make? Any?

So now if the Swinger goes PAST Top and thus the pressure point MOVES and then it COULD move back again OR NOT . . . How in the heck does the Swinger Monitor the #3 Pressure Point if the dang thang is moving all over the place????

Wouldn't be better for the Swinger to Monitor #2 . . . since of course it is the Left Wrist that is being Loaded??? Why is #2 the little bastard forgot Pressure Point?

Wassup wassup wassup????
Lost your medication- what a shame!:crybaby:

Mathew 12-09-2006 02:28 AM
Clubhead force and motion is onplane. To keep an object such as a golf club thats on a plane, the thrust to move that object must also be on that plane. This is the sameness of hitting and swinging.

When pp4 creates a pressure against the primary lever assembly for the swinger, both hands remain flat to the inclined plane and since the golf club doesn't want to go along with you, it creates a pressure against the first knuckle as the power package is being dragged downplane longitudinally.

12 piece bucket 12-09-2006 01:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathew
Clubhead force and motion is onplane. To keep an object such as a golf club thats on a plane, the thrust to move that object must also be on that plane. This is the sameness of hitting and swinging.

When pp4 creates a pressure against the primary lever assembly for the swinger, both hands remain flat to the inclined plane and since the golf club doesn't want to go along with you, it creates a pressure against the first knuckle as the power package is being dragged downplane longitudinally.
Witcha . . . however it doesn't HAVE TO BE the first knuckle if unless the hands go past the top of the line delivery path and thus the path becomes Arc or Angled Line . . . right?

So the Swinger's #3 can change locations which would seem to lead to more difficulty in learning to interpret its message . . . #2 is the constant though . . . what do you think?

phillygolf 12-10-2006 07:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 12 piece bucket
10-11-0-3 PRESSURE POINT #3
Remember, with Swinging, Pressure Point #3 must have a Feel of being rotated a quarter turn at The Top with Standard Wrist Action (10-18-A), just and only because of Loading Action direction – no actual movement of anything. So from The Top to Release, the Loading put the top side of the Clubshaft against the first knuckle of the forefinger. But with Hitting there must be NO change whatever.

When the Wrists “Swivel” back to the Vertical Position (4-C-3) during Standard Wrist Action (10-18-A) per 6-B-3. Pressure Point #3 may – but need not – return to its “strong” position (Aft side of the Clubshaft). That is – if left in “Top-of-the-Clubshaft” position it becomes a Weak Single Action Grip (10-2-A) and the interchangeable equivalent to 10-2-C for Swingers. But both are improper for Hitters using Single Wrist Action (10-18-C).
So basically if you go past TOP (Top of the Line Delivery Path) then your club shall load on the top of the first knuckle . . . . got that thar . . .

Then Homer throws us a curve ball . . . it CAN move back to the Strong #3 position again back to the aft side of the shaft rather than the top . . . but it don't have to.

What the heck difference does it make? Any?

So now if the Swinger goes PAST Top and thus the pressure point MOVES and then it COULD move back again OR NOT . . . How in the heck does the Swinger Monitor the #3 Pressure Point if the dang thang is moving all over the place????

Wouldn't be better for the Swinger to Monitor #2 . . . since of course it is the Left Wrist that is being Loaded??? Why is #2 the little bastard forgot Pressure Point?

Wassup wassup wassup????
Run...DMC....

Some thoughts, not thought of well - and not well thought of!

Swinger, or Hitter - Homer is a PP#3 guy! (meaning, pp#2, while may work for some, is not the recommended medication to take!).

That being said, totally agree!

I never got - though at one point was close (and spoke at length on the phone and in person with M/Y), never got the top of the shaft dealio.

Ok, let's say, lag pp, rotating is rotating, how in God's beautiful green earth does it then - go to the top of the shaft?

Beats me.

Calling all cars, calling all cars.

LL.

Cool.

J.

Patrick

danny_shank 12-11-2006 09:05 AM
Quote:
Ok, let's say, lag pp, rotating is rotating, how in God's beautiful green earth does it then - go to the top of the shaft?
Patrick where you might be going wrong is it is not the rotating PP that directly moves the pressure from aft to top of the shaft. Because your hands are swinging in a circle as they near end they are underneath the shaft to support it's weight, this is what causes the change in pressure.

12 piece bucket 12-11-2006 09:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by danny_shank
Patrick where you might be going wrong is it is not the rotating PP that directly moves the pressure from aft to top of the shaft. Because your hands are swinging in a circle as they near end they are underneath the shaft to support it's weight, this is what causes the change in pressure.
Good point . . . because the Right Forearm supports the Secondary Lever Assembly in Swinging unlike Hitting where it is directly opposed to the Primary Lever Assembly . . .

Good thinkin' Boss!

Mathew 12-11-2006 10:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 12 piece bucket
Witcha . . . however it doesn't HAVE TO BE the first knuckle if unless the hands go past the top of the line delivery path and thus the path becomes Arc or Angled Line . . . right?

So the Swinger's #3 can change locations which would seem to lead to more difficulty in learning to interpret its message . . . #2 is the constant though . . . what do you think?
It has nothing to do with the assembly point except that you must assemble the accumulators you wish to use per stroke pattern at some point. As soon as you swivel and bring those hands flat to the plane and start loading the secondary lever assembly that loading action puts the pressure onto the first knuckle. That becomes the pressure you move onplane per my last post. Just like the swinger has a sequenced release - it should also be somewhat more of a sequenced loading... It is the fact that the swinger will swivel somewhat quicker to the plane than the hitter, the motion of no.2 creates the pressure against the first knuckle.

You can then just try to keep the longitudinal onplane pressure and not try to change it until centrifugal force whirls out the secondary lever assembly (A-variation grip) or you can maintain the pressure all the way down by allowing it to rotate back with the acc no.3 (B-Variation grip)....

12 piece bucket 12-11-2006 11:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathew
It has nothing to do with the assembly point except that you must assemble the accumulators you wish to use per stroke pattern at some point. As soon as you swivel and bring those hands flat to the plane and start loading the secondary lever assembly that loading action puts the pressure onto the first knuckle. That becomes the pressure you move onplane per my last post. Just like the swinger has a sequenced release - it should also be somewhat more of a sequenced loading... It is the fact that the swinger will swivel somewhat quicker to the plane than the hitter, the motion of no.2 creates the pressure against the first knuckle.

You can then just try to keep the longitudinal onplane pressure and not try to change it until centrifugal force whirls out the secondary lever assembly (A-variation grip) or you can maintain the pressure all the way down by allowing it to rotate back with the acc no.3 (B-Variation grip)....
OK I'm now smellin' you loud and clear . . . . it has to do with the selected Wrist Action then right? As a result of the left palm facing the Plane (Standard Wrist Action) the Load HAS TO move to the Knuckle . . . where as if your Left Wrist stayed Vertical to the Plane it would Load on the pad where Mr. K defined the #3 Pressure Point.

QUESTION on the second part . . . B-Variation . . . at what point would you start to feel it move from the knuckle back to the pad? When the #3 is actuated?

Appreciate you bearing with me man!

Thanks for the clarification boss . . . Good stuff!

Mathew 12-11-2006 11:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 12 piece bucket
OK I'm now smellin' you loud and clear . . . . it has to do with the selected Wrist Action then right? As a result of the left palm facing the Plane (Standard Wrist Action) the Load HAS TO move to the Knuckle . . . where as if your Left Wrist stayed Vertical to the Plane it would Load on the pad where Mr. K defined the #3 Pressure Point.

QUESTION on the second part . . . B-Variation . . . at what point would you start to feel it move from the knuckle back to the pad? When the #3 is actuated?

Appreciate you bearing with me man!

Thanks for the clarification boss . . . Good stuff!
Yup, at least thats the way I see it...

As soon as the hands turn to the plane for the swinger, the wristcock is put onplane - pp2 and the rotated pp3 have a symbient relationship because they both then travel around the same circle made by the secondary lever assembly.

It is all about the law of the flail per 2-K. For the longest time I thought I understood this but you have to remember that the wrist conditions with the hands are relative to the clubshaft and the inclined plane, not to the arms when dealing with the onplane flail. It is a recent understanding of mine that whilst the wrist conditions at the top are written as Flat, Cocked, and Turned for the left hand... you have to remember that flat is flat to the inclined plane and will therefore bent in relation to the left arm to the exact degree that the left arm is above the plane... this allows the onplane loading to be purely of acc no.2 when turned to the plane. The right wrist is Level, Bent and Turned also to the inclined plane. Since the right hand is onplane - the hand is level to the LCOG (irregardless of right forearm position - which per the flying wedges has a relationship with acc no.3 not no.2), Bent to its impact fix degree.... therefore as the left wrist cocking motion is onplane and the secondary lever assembly's motion is onplane - as the right hand stays level to that club, the pressure will always be at 90 degrees onplane to the LCOG around the interior circle of the hands (our right hand lower than the left) as the left wrist cocks.....

12 piece bucket 12-11-2006 12:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathew
Yup, at least thats the way I see it...

As soon as the hands turn to the plane for the swinger, the wristcock is put onplane - pp2 and the rotated pp3 have a symbient relationship because they both then travel around the same circle made by the secondary lever assembly.

It is all about the law of the flail per 2-K. For the longest time I thought I understood this but you have to remember that the wrist conditions with the hands are relative to the clubshaft and the inclined plane, not to the arms when dealing with the onplane flail. It is a recent understanding of mine that whilst the wrist conditions at the top are written as Flat, Cocked, and Turned for the left hand... you have to remember that flat is flat to the inclined plane and will therefore bent in relation to the left arm to the exact degree that the left arm is above the plane... this allows the onplane loading to be purely of acc no.2 when turned to the plane. The right wrist is Level, Bent and Turned also to the inclined plane. Since the right hand is onplane - the hand is level to the LCOG (irregardless of right forearm position - which per the flying wedges has a relationship with acc no.3 not no.2), Bent to its impact fix degree.... therefore as the left wrist cocking motion is onplane and the secondary lever assembly's motion is onplane - as the right hand stays level to that club, the pressure will always be at 90 degrees onplane to the LCOG around the interior circle of the hands (our right hand lower than the left) as the left wrist cocks.....
Thanks man! You have made an integral contribution to my understanding of this stuff . . . Thanks for your help!

Mathew 12-11-2006 12:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 12 piece bucket
Thanks man! You have made an integral contribution to my understanding of this stuff . . . Thanks for your help!
Nae Probs :)

golfbulldog 12-11-2006 05:11 PM
the complete swingers jigsaw puzzle...
 
To swing the way that Matthew describes you need all the swingers components ( or jigsaw pieces)... standard wrist action leads to right forearm position supporting loading of 2ndry lever (right elbow pointing more down)...leads to quarter turn rotation of PP3.... leads to pitch elbow (more readily)... etc

If you swing but use single wrist action then you get no quarter turn PP3 loading etc...still swinging because drag loading but using a component more typical of hitting and simultaneous release... all other swingers components can then be added but it is not as pure swing...

I am sure that Comdpa has written somewhere about the type of hinge action being determined in the backswing... it seems that the more turn to plane occuring in the backswing the more readily one horizontal hinges in the impact interval region.... and vica versa...

Just a few thoughts... shoot it down if you think i got it wrong ... looking to learn! Thanks

EdZ 12-12-2006 12:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathew
Yup, at least thats the way I see it...

As soon as the hands turn to the plane for the swinger, the wristcock is put onplane - pp2 and the rotated pp3 have a symbient relationship because they both then travel around the same circle made by the secondary lever assembly.

It is all about the law of the flail per 2-K. For the longest time I thought I understood this but you have to remember that the wrist conditions with the hands are relative to the clubshaft and the inclined plane, not to the arms when dealing with the onplane flail. It is a recent understanding of mine that whilst the wrist conditions at the top are written as Flat, Cocked, and Turned for the left hand... you have to remember that flat is flat to the inclined plane and will therefore bent in relation to the left arm to the exact degree that the left arm is above the plane... this allows the onplane loading to be purely of acc no.2 when turned to the plane. The right wrist is Level, Bent and Turned also to the inclined plane. Since the right hand is onplane - the hand is level to the LCOG (irregardless of right forearm position - which per the flying wedges has a relationship with acc no.3 not no.2), Bent to its impact fix degree.... therefore as the left wrist cocking motion is onplane and the secondary lever assembly's motion is onplane - as the right hand stays level to that club, the pressure will always be at 90 degrees onplane to the LCOG around the interior circle of the hands (our right hand lower than the left) as the left wrist cocks.....
Nice post Mathew - the 'wheel rim' - :salut:

golfbulldog 02-10-2007 01:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 12 piece bucket (Post 36970)

QUESTION on the second part . . . B-Variation . . . at what point would you start to feel it move from the knuckle back to the pad? When the #3 is actuated?

Appreciate you bearing with me man!

Thanks for the clarification boss . . . Good stuff!
Rotating pressure point link - love this!

http://www.lynnblakegolf.com/gallery... 9999&way=asc

This is a key topic for my swinging understanding and i apologise for the review. BUT i have a few questions please...

On the downswing when the lag pressure is experienced on the rotated pp3 ( knuckle) - are the hosel, sweetspot and shaft all on the same plane?

My understanding is yes.

With standard wrist action ( as per Buckets question above) there will be rotation of hosel and shaft around the sweet spot - thus seperating the planes. With automatic release, does this occur when Accumulator 2 releases... left wrist reaches level and starts the roll of accumulator 3?

My understanding is yes... and with strong single action grip... pp3 starts to rotate to fleshy part of index finger pad ( i love the Hogan Homevideo in Yoda Gallery - hope this link works:-

http://www.lynnblakegolf.com/gallery... 9999&way=asc

where he shows this!!! I mean love!!! To see and hear him talk about pp3... thanks for the clip,Yoda)

We do not want to lag the hosel into impact but i guess we do ( with grip variation B(strong single action)) want to lag the hosel up until release point - yes? no?

What happens if you start the downswing ok ( not casting) and club is maintained turned to the plane... but you start to lose lag pressure...

...presumably the heavy toe of the club drags the clubface more open, shaft and sweetspot plane control is lost ( under plane)... and the only way to square to impact is flip or mega pivot?? If you don't square it up then shanks occur because youare still lagging ( to a small degree) the hosel??

Maybe??

Thanks for your thought.


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