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10-2-D GRIP AND PADDLE-WHEEL MOTION
Ok guys, here's the description of 10-2-D Grip. I fight the left shot and need some help getting this first in my mind and next into my game:
10-2-D STRONG DOUBLE ACTION T/V/A Now the Right Wrist is Vertical and the Left Wrist is Turned to the top of the Clubshaft so that the Left Wristcocking motion will be on the same line as the Right Wrist Bend. The #3 Pressure Point and the left thumb are also on the same line as the Right Wrist Bend. Double Action – same as 10-2-C. Very compatible with the Cut Shot procedures. Any Left Wrist Bend at Impact Fix should be maintained throughout the Stroke. This Grip Type features maximum Wristcocking action and strong support for both Acceleration and Impact loads. The palm of the Right Hand moves toward Impact exactly like a paddle-wheel rotating On-Plane – no separate Rolling Motion until after Impact. See 10-10-C. So since this Grip Type is compatible with Cut Shot procedures AND moves toward Impact in a paddle-wheel motion (Angled Hinging) is this a better Hitter's Grip than Swinger's Grip since Hitting tends toward Angled Hinging? Also, the books says explictly "no separate Rolling Motion until after Impact." So with this grip should you have a sort of "hold" or "hold off" feel? And one more . . . Could you guys give so description of paddle-wheel for fog clearing? I'm assuming if I don't paddle-wheel with this grip and get the Roll on before Impact, then it's "Hello Left Woods my old friend?" :cry: Thanks a ton! Richard |
Brother 12 Piece,
I am currently collecting a data base using the stroke pattern checklists in chapter 12 with my PGM Students...10-2-D is the grip of choice for many of the "diagnosed" hitters. Here's perhaps a few educated guesses; 1.) Pre-Turned Grips are usually associated with no additional rotation necessary in during Backstroke. 2.) Uncocking will perform BOTH release motions(4-D-0) 3.) Compatible with Angled Hinging Rhythm. 4.) An "adjustable clamp" which places the left thumb and line of the left wrist cock (also in line with the plane of the right wrist bend) on the Aft Side of the shaft so there can be wrist motion and hand motion in the same plane of motion...Sounds like someone could be "chopping wood" with an Axe-handle technique to me! This grip type is excellent for those who like to get away with 'Uneducated Hands"!!! Annikan |
Yes, it does simplify what the hands must do - by a lot. The biggest advantage of 10-2-D IMO is that it really makes it tougher to have throw away, and makes it easier to get your delievery/approach - everything is in line -
The place to start learning compression - with a disadvantage of somewhat less clubface control - but still more than most are 'trying' to play with. Also very helpful for learning downplane 'through' impact - to both arms straight - no real manipulation needed - just one big thrust downplane to both arms straight. Alex Morrison knew what he was doing, almost got it, but 'got away' with it because of his grip =D> Rockabye Baby |
Re: 10-2-D GRIP AND PADDLE-WHEEL MOTION
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Do you think there's grey that exists between 10-2-B and 10-2-D? We hit some shots. I'm not sure my lefties are a result of my Turned Left Hand now. I had let the club creep way under the Left Hand heel pad. We changed that to less turned and less under the pad. Ball go high. Ball go far. Ball no go left. |
Bucket,
There's all kinds of grey...Light grey, Dark grey, grey- grey, Silver, Platinum....The wrist can be rotated a wide variety of ways....The more the ball location moves back from loe point and there can be more and more shaft lean...i would rotate the grip proportionately. I believe the classifications in 10-2 are exactly that a way of classifyting ththe variations. but definitely does not cover every "little degree" Grip type and Hinge Action must be COMPATIBLE ! Annikan |
Mention of Alex Morrison causes me to reminiss: My first teacher of note was Henry Picard--5 years. One time I told Henry I was having problems breaking down with the left wrist. He put my left hand basically in a four knuckle grip position and said now I would have to break the bone to break down. That has served well as emergency help for students with massive throwaway.
By the way, I let Mr. Picard read my copy of the golfing Machine: he loved parts of it. I have the only copy in existence of the golfing Machine with notes by Henry Picard--what a treasure! |
Im also somewhere between 10-2-B and 10-2-D. I've had a tac-tic for a little while now and find that it's very difficult to not have a Slight bend of the left wrist near the Top, if I go for 10-2-B that is not the case. I can't full swing with 10-2-B.
Does a degree of turn in the lead wrist grip lead to some wrist bend, the more turn the more bend? |
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thanks mate :)
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Nevermind,
The "geometric " flat left wrist ( An In-Line Condition with a Visible "Bent" Left Wrist) is discussed in 10-2-G Triple/Quadruple Action Grip Type. Skywalker |
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First, the 'gap' between the left thumb/hand Second, the right hand grip is in the CUP (near the base of the fingers, NOT up in the fingers) - in a proper 10-2-B the palms face each other, grip a ruler to find this feeling Third - an overlap grip really 'locks in' 10-2-B - as with all things grip related, very small changes can have huge influence on the rest of the motion. As Lynn pointed out a while back, having the overlap be 'on' the index finger, rather than in the crook between the index and middle finger is one such small change with a huge influence. The left thumb position is critical - on plane and supporting impact from BEHIND the shaft. In effect, the left thumb supports impact in the same way for both 10-2-B and 10-2-D. The 'gap' is the difference. The standard training grip on the market does a pretty solid job of showing 10-2-B, but only if you understand the points above. The grip defines the rest of the motion in many, many ways. Always keep the pressure points in mind! If you find you are cupping the left wrist at the top, it is likely the right hand grip is too much in the fingers (too much on 'top') and/or you don't have the 'gap' in the left hand grip. |
 Who's hands are these? Check out the differences. |
Having never seen Homer's grip up close, just a guess that the first are his (aside from not seeing a gap, which may rule out that choice - a 10-2-D from an off camera angle?). The second looks very much like Faldo's grip to me.
Notice that the core difference is in the left hand, the right is 'nearly' the same for most good players. |
EdZ,
Batting .500 ...Keerect on the 2nd Choice...That is Faldo...I'll give you some more tries on the first...Clue...LPGA Skywalker |
Well then I'd have to make a guess at Wright, but I always thought she had her right hand more on 'top', less turned than in this photo. Otherwise, I can't say I've seen many grip closeups of LPGA players of the past (not that I have seen a close up of Wright's either, but from what I have seen, this could be her).
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Peggy Kirk Bell...
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Bucket,
A hitter most likely with the belief system of a swinger...Hitting alignments...always trying to PULL!!! She did well with Master Yoda showing her the magic of the right forearm!!!Great lady...loves the game and the mystery of the elusive swing(We know...however...there are no mysteries...just the inspiration to solve them) Skywalker |
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$75 and ride to the clinic. |
Or could a lot of people that think that they're Hitters actually be Right Arm Swingers?
:shock: :idea: |
To differentiate the motions, I find it helpful to try to perform each.
Use the appropriate left wrist action, assembly point, and loading type for Swinging. Do it once leaving the left arm inert and using the right shoulder to drag the clubhead downplane. Then do it again, but this time by dragging your right arm downplane. Don't drive it, but instead drag it through impact. Feel that right forearm pull the clubshaft lengthwise. Then change the left wrist, etc, to accomodate Hitting. Feel the right arm drive-out and feel the difference between that PUNCHING motion and the Right Arm Swinging motion you just felt. There should be a definite difference in feel between the three motions, and especially between the Right Arm Swing and the Hit. |
Matt,
Good Point...A lot of "right arm swinger" wanna be's where the center of the arm swing becomes the right elbow instead of the left shoulder and they find themselves driving the clubhead instead of the left arm.10-3-K. But it is still hitting... in my opinion...But there's enough info on that...ask DG he's posted more on the subject than I... Skywalker |
Thanks goes out to our resident "Right Arm Swing" Affecinado....Delaware Golf... I Personally s topped "right arm swinging because my level of expertise kept causing me to execute 10-3-K, low point problems, pull hooks, throwaway, and a right elbow that was in a lot of pain....what was I doing wrong?..
This thread is a grip type thread....Please let's continue my friends Annikan |
DG,
I learned from Mac O'Grady, Michael Hebron, Lynn Blake, Chuck Evans,Chuck Wike, Ted Frick.Andy Plummer and Fran Deschaine....Tommy died before I had the chance to get some insight from Him.... My Stroke Pattern: Grip-Basic - Overlap Grip-Type - Strong Single Stroke - Basic - Pitch... later became "Bat" unintentionally Stroke Variation - 4 Barrel Plane line- Cl-Cl - 2" Plane Angle - Basic - Elbow Plane Angle Variation - Double Shift Fix - N/A Address - Standard Hinge Action - Dual Horizonal Pressure Point combination - 4 Point Pivot - Standard Shoulder Turn - Rotated Hip Turn - Standard Hip Action - Delayed Knee Action - Standard Foot Action -Flat Left Wrist Action - Standard Lag Loading - Drag Trigger - Shoulder/Right Arm/Wrist throw Combination Assembly Point - Top Loading Action - Sweep Delivery Path - Top Arc - Angled Line Release - Snap When I was 17 I was a +1.8 HDCP...Then I took lessons ...As a "Mini-Touring" Professional ( I played them all...Hogan, TC Jordan, Powerbilt, Canadian, etc...) Each year my stroke average went up!!! I was great at missing cuts with 72's..74's ..76's usually even numbers though!!! Did win a mini-tour event - Swinging - I was working with Phil Ritson . In amateur speak I became a 2,4,6....Couldn't play dead!!! At age 37 I've played 9 rounds this year my HDCP is a +1.8 ( Highest Round of the year 76 and made my handicap go up from +2.2 back toward zero... What happened ...I went back to "Swinging" with a Left Shoulder as the Center of the Arm Stroke...Right Arm Swinging desroyed my playing career ...BUT has filled my "pockets" on the Lesson tee!!! Maybe if I took lessons from Tommy or you DG things might have turned out differently...But now I teach "Tour Players", College Players, and Nationallly ranked Juniors.... I thank the Good Lord for Blessing me with tons of talented students to work with!!!! Skywalker PS... I DO NOT DISAGREE WITH YOU ...EVERYTHING YOU WRITE "IS" WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OR ON A TAPE...SOMEWHERE...IT JUST DIDN'T WORK FOR ME AS A PLAYER-COMPETITIOR |
DG,
Start Down was from the ground up... Was this the Problem DG? If so please explain why...I need to know Skywalker |
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as long as "the mind is in the hands", you can pivot all you want IMO, as long as you have a stable center and a properly aligned radius |
DG,
You're probably right...BUT I know shoulder and wrist throw are combinations in one of the editons...I'll find which one... Found IT 4th edition.....! 3rd Editon..Right arm throw .."ALL....Wrist throw ...B/D...NOW you're right 6th edition...the trigger combos changed in the transition from 3rd to 4th ...Why...Now.... My mistake Hand throw Right arm throw and Shoulder throw can be combo's...mabe that's what I meant...error..I'm prone to errors...mind races!!!! Just because it's NOT in the 6th edition..doesn't make it right...I've seen the 7th edition notes...there are a lot of changes to the 6th ...I have every edition except the first...PLEASE check the trigger combinations in those editions you might find a different set of trigger combinations...As far as assembly points...I can assemble the power package any where I want...I can load with full sweep and take it to the End so that I can Top Arc... Look at O'Grady...I learned from Him...Maybe I'm wrong...That's why I'm not an expert...I realize assembly of the power package and loading the pressure points are seperate but intertwined areas... Mac said he was a 4-barrel Swinger...But I see a 3 barallel Hitting action...Maybe I just don't know what the he77 I'm doing... Would you please show us some pictures or footage of the right arm swing either of yourself or others ...so that I can SEE the differences...Much appreciated. BTW, I never liked SNAP and END too "whippy" were not hitting 1 irons any more...Don't need the high spin rates from that tend to result forom that loading procedure...Full Sweep then take it to the END...Very Controllable!!!! Contol.. .A machine in Control....A ....Mind out of control!!!! Skywalker By the way in my opinion the 6th edition has the MOST info, but written the poorest, the 2nd edition the LEAST info(probably not as complete) but most easily understood...just an opinion...everyone has one...MOST STINK! |
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Hmmm.....Just go to the LBG Classic Movie section of this site and you will see one of the top Right Arm Swingers....Mr. Tomasello himself....and when Lynn and company gets to it...the forum will get to see Mr. Tomasello demonstrate the exact swinging motion that Tommy describes in his GI July 1991 interview in a video that Tomasello made in May of 1992. DG |
DG,
With all due respect..to Mr.Tomascello...I've seen his tapes...and his students...many of them...MANY of them are mine NOW...I've been adjusting a lot of machines...for a long time...14 years....His students...always have the club too far inside..below plane... Why? Too much changing in the right wrist bend from address to start-up combine with a Standard pivot and pre-turned hips....Homer int the 7th edition notes that were discused with me shifted everyting to "Slide" Hip turn...and a "delayed" hip Action...that is much more compatible with the RFT....I'll tell you what ...You're a smart guy...you have an "OPEN" invitation to come down We'll get together and I'll show you a 234 Slide Power Point Presentation that would " cause " an off the Richter Scale earthquake in all of "golfdom"....I originally made it for Mac O'Grady...But got Excommunicated...You'll absolutley love it....Guaranteed Besides what made Tomascell a top notch instructor was NOT his level of understanding , But his unmatched "Believablity Factor" which is essential in this business...This comes from his many students who now work with me!!! NOT my opinion! |
DG,
I'm n ot questioning Tommy's Record... He was SUCESSFUL!!! Besides....He can't take all the credit for Jodie Jodie deserves his own credit!!! My friend "Andy Plummer" has worked with him in his retirement Plummer took from Tommy!!! He knows of Tommy's Work. By the way ...wanna know who is working with Greg Norman, Steve Elkington, Grant Waite, Dean Wilson, Tommy Armour III, Tom Scherer Just remember 2 names ....Plummer and Bennett They're HOT right now...real HOT...Almost as Hot as Hardy... Watch and see!!! Teachers can never take credit for a student's success...Just simply providing guidance....along the way Jodie spent a lot of time with Mac...and won the TOUR Champioship while working with Mac...If I'm incorrect.. on this ...Jodie would definitely correct me... DG, I gotta give you credit....you're a "diehard" Tommy Fan... Tommy probably would've wanted you as his 1st assistant!!! I know I would expect that strong loyalty in my circle!!! Cheers Skywalker |
DG,
I'm not questioning Tommy's Record... He was SUCESSFUL!!! Besides....He can't take all the credit for Jodie Jodie deserves his own credit!!! He could play before when he was at Georgia Southern . My friend "Andy Plummer" has worked with him in his retirement Plummer took from Tommy!!! He knows of Tommy's Work. By the way ...wanna know who is working with Greg Norman, Steve Elkington, Grant Waite, Dean Wilson, Tommy Armour III, Tom Scherer Just remember 2 names ....Plummer and Bennett They're HOT right now...real HOT...Almost as Hot as Hardy... Watch and see!!! Teachers can never take credit for a student's success...Just simply providing guidance....along the way Jodie spent a lot of time with Mac...and won the TOUR Champioship while working with Mac...If I'm incorrect.. on this ...Jodie would definitely correct me... DG, I gotta give you credit....you're a "diehard" Tommy Fan... Tommy probably would've wanted you as his 1st assistant!!! I know I would expect that strong loyalty in my circle!!! Cheers Skywalker |
This thread is 10-2-D Thread,
We're way off course.... You're right ...wearing thin who needs tapes when you can demonstrate yourself!!!  Nothing Personal DG....Just a difference in opinion...I CAN respect that!!! |
Uncle!!!
YOU WIN!!! You're RIGHT I'm wrong Here!!! YOU CAN RIGHT ARM SWING PER 10-11-O-! |
AGREED!
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