Originally Posted by Hennybogan (Post 43141)

First congrats to Jay. You played like a champion (and beat the rest of the field by four) but Hunter just one-upped you. That was a very high level of golf by both players coming down the stretch.

I'd like to offer a little insight into the conversation between Hunter and John Wood over the iron shot on eighteen in regulation. It's a perfect situation to look at to understand what goes on out there. We were lucky that the mikes caught it and no one talked over the conversation.

Yardage is 147. They pick a nine iron. Perfect club for the situation. Hunter can go ahead and hit it. Something you like to do under pressure. As he is walking into the shot, he feels a little puff into him. He's thinking he has to make birdie, but if there is hurt, nine might balloon a bit and be short. John likes the nine. He does not think the last hole trying to win your first tourney is the time to chip the eight.

John says it's just 138 to carry the trap. For some golfers, the mention of the trap would be a negative. A tour player deals with these numbers all day long. Just guessing but the yardage would have been something like, "125 to the front, 147 hole. It's 138 and 9 (new adjusted front number to cover trap) and 8 behind it-- 155 back edge." All those numbers frame the yardage and narrow the club selection. Can't carry the trap with a wedge--eight brings over into play--must be a nine.

When John says it's just 138 to cover the trap, he's saying, "I like the nine, and even if it gets knocked down a bit, it will carry the trap." John knew nine was enough. He thought the wind was just left to right and not hurting. Hunter is still feeling that puff and thinks MAYBE he should hit eight. That's when John says lets rerun the numbers. It's a basic reset. Let it all go and start over. Numbers say nine iron. Discount the puff. Trust where the wind has been all day. Hit your shot. It's all about observation of all the conditions to get the right club. Get committed. Trust your swing. Do your routine. Let it go. Birdie.

Jay and his caddie did similar work and got the answers right as well. For any of this to work, you have to be able to hit the shot. Great work Yoda.

Originally Posted by Hennybogan (Post 43141)

First congrats to Jay. You played like a champion (and beat the rest of the field by four) but Hunter just one-upped you. That was a very high level of golf by both players coming down the stretch.

I'd like to offer a little insight into the conversation between Hunter and John Wood over the iron shot on eighteen in regulation. It's a perfect situation to look at to understand what goes on out there. We were lucky that the mikes caught it and no one talked over the conversation.

Yardage is 147. They pick a nine iron. Perfect club for the situation. Hunter can go ahead and hit it. Something you like to do under pressure. As he is walking into the shot, he feels a little puff into him. He's thinking he has to make birdie, but if there is hurt, nine might balloon a bit and be short. John likes the nine. He does not think the last hole trying to win your first tourney is the time to chip the eight.

John says it's just 138 to carry the trap. For some golfers, the mention of the trap would be a negative. A tour player deals with these numbers all day long. Just guessing but the yardage would have been something like, "125 to the front, 147 hole. It's 138 and 9 (new adjusted front number to cover trap) and 8 behind it-- 155 back edge." All those numbers frame the yardage and narrow the club selection. Can't carry the trap with a wedge--eight brings over into play--must be a nine.

When John says it's just 138 to cover the trap, he's saying, "I like the nine, and even if it gets knocked down a bit, it will carry the trap." John knew nine was enough. He thought the wind was just left to right and not hurting. Hunter is still feeling that puff and thinks MAYBE he should hit eight. That's when John says lets rerun the numbers. It's a basic reset. Let it all go and start over. Numbers say nine iron. Discount the puff. Trust where the wind has been all day. Hit your shot. It's all about observation of all the conditions to get the right club. Get committed. Trust your swing. Do your routine. Let it go. Birdie.

Jay and his caddie did similar work and got the answers right as well. For any of this to work, you have to be able to hit the shot. Great work Yoda.

Originally Posted by Hennybogan (Post 43154)

When you have done the work. Built the swing. Honed your touch, etc. The game is really played in the short time between arriving at your ball and sending the shot away. Besides knowing the answer to any possible question about the course, a good caddie provides an objective view. Careful analysis and observation gives the caddie a pile of data on which to base suggestions. While the player must monitor swing, body, feel, etc, the caddie is free to study the conditions. The caddie does not feel the emotion of having to pull off the shot.

For instance, it you can picture the last hole at Glen Abbey--Canadian Open--where Tiger hit the miracle shot from the bunker to beat Grant Waite. My player has hit a big drive through the fairway into the first cut. The shot is about 175 with a carry of 160 or so. I run the numbers and look at the lie and decide it's a nine. Now you could bail with a eight, but you will be it the bunker over and hitting a downhill bunker shot towards the water. Most pros will leave that shot 10 feet short for safety. So you have ended up with a 10 footer for bird with a nine iron second on a par five. Not how to get rich.

Now the trouble is that if the shot does not jump it will fly in the middle of the pond, and we will have to play from the same spot hitting four. Again not the way to get rich. I'm standing there sending telepathy and hoping my man reads the numbers the same way I do, so I don't have to have the conversation. He looks a me and says, "It's a nine isn't it?" Lucky me, but also I can answer that it's the only club I ever thought which--may have helped him. Ten fee=eagle. We came second to Sutton and beat the rest of the field by 3 shots. Another step towards winning which we did the next year at another event.

Point is: we were on the same page because that is what we did on every shot all day long everyday. When the shot comes off you add it to the data base. When it does not, you analyze what went wrong. Misread lie or wind or "the ball is really flying today" etc. If it was just a bad swing, you let it go because you are going to miss some.

The more you can think like this--almost detached--the more consistent you will become. A cold, crical, realistic view of your abilities with the heart to pull the trigger. Final thought-- sometimes all the math says eight-- but it just feels like a seven. Always hit the seven.

Originally Posted by Hennybogan (Post 43154)

When you have done the work. Built the swing. Honed your touch, etc. The game is really played in the short time between arriving at your ball and sending the shot away. Besides knowing the answer to any possible question about the course, a good caddie provides an objective view. Careful analysis and observation gives the caddie a pile of data on which to base suggestions. While the player must monitor swing, body, feel, etc, the caddie is free to study the conditions. The caddie does not feel the emotion of having to pull off the shot.

For instance, it you can picture the last hole at Glen Abbey--Canadian Open--where Tiger hit the miracle shot from the bunker to beat Grant Waite. My player has hit a big drive through the fairway into the first cut. The shot is about 175 with a carry of 160 or so. I run the numbers and look at the lie and decide it's a nine. Now you could bail with a eight, but you will be in the bunker over and hitting a downhill bunker shot towards the water. Most pros will leave that shot 10 feet short for safety. So you have ended up with a 10 footer for bird with a nine iron second on a par five. Not how to get rich.

Now the trouble is that if the shot does not jump it will fly in the middle of the pond, and we will have to play from the same spot hitting four. Again not the way to get rich. I'm standing there sending telepathy and hoping my man reads the numbers the same way I do, so I don't have to have the conversation. He looks at me and says, "It's a nine isn't it?" Lucky me, but also I can answer that it's the only club I ever thought which--may have helped him. Ten feet=eagle. We came second to Sutton and beat the rest of the field by 3 shots. Another step towards winning which we did the next year at another event.

Point is: we were on the same page because that is what we did on every shot all day long everyday. When the shot comes off you add it to the data base. When it does not, you analyze what went wrong. Misread lie or wind or "the ball is really flying today" etc. If it was just a bad swing, you let it go because you are going to miss some.

The more you can think like this--almost detached--the more consistent you will become. A cold, critical, realistic view of your abilities with the heart to pull the trigger. Final thought-- sometimes all the math says eight-- but it just feels like a seven. Always hit the seven.

Originally Posted by Hennybogan (Post 43168)

Bucket,

The combination of the your abilities and the golf course determine the optimal stategy. 30 under wins the Hope-- you better shoot at a lot of flags--Open you are trying to get the ball some place that you have a chance on your next shot. I'll give you some of my general rules for normal golf.

Hit the driver unless there is OB, water, dogleg,severe pinching, or a pin tucked over a trap with firm greens. Get as close as you can to the pin.

Second shots on par fours. Length of shot is first consideration. Trouble is second. There are some places you just can't hit it. Usually short side unless designer like Trent Jones Jr. Firmness and speed of greens is a huge factor. On really firm greens, you play for some skip and respect the edges because the short game is that much tougher. Generally, seven iron or so the guys are firing at a lot of pins. Wedges almost every flag regardless of trouble. Of course, this is all dictated by lie. Clean lie in fairway plus comfortable number (not in between clubs) = go. In the rough, play to the front. Anytime you find trouble, just get past the trouble in front of you and trust your short game. If you don't like the shot for whatever reason, you would play safer.

Tour players have such good short games that they can be very aggressive when a miss leaves the in traps or grass. Water or nasty traps or fall off areas give you pause.

Par threes are getting so long that you are usually just trying to get pin high and have a chance for bird.

Pros kill the par fives. Hit a good drive. Get it around the green. Get it up and down. No need to take great risks. Bad drive. Lay up in fairway. Hit good short iron. Make a little longer putt.

The easy courses play themselves. You really have to be "on" to have a chance. You have to shoot twenty under par. As the conditions get tougher, the players take fewer risks and play a more Nicklaus style. Experience, excellent short game, patience, etc. are much bigger factors on tougher courses. You can manage your "B" game around them and still have a chance.

The reality is that you need to make alot of birdies most weeks. Five a day. Most guys just don't make that many long putts. You have to hit at some flags. Any course will still have several holes you just try to get by. You have to learn which ones they are. On tour this designation is often determined by the hole location.

You have to take some chances. Your good shots have to be good.

All that said. You evaluate each shot as you stand over it and make the play that would give you the best score if you played from there 100 times. No crazy chances. Good, aggressive golf.

Originally Posted by Hennybogan (Post 43180)

Bucket,

I think that most tour players play their normal shape shot most of the time. Most guys don't curve it much with the irons. Almost every player is altering trajectory based on conditions. You may have heard Bones and Phil talking about "Stock, Pelz, etc." I don't know all their definitions, but they are talking about manipulating trajectory and fullness of shot. Many players will hit the ball up against the wind (cut into hook wind) to control line and distance. They also manipulate spin especially with the wedges.

One thing to avoid is what I call "Fancy Play Syndrome." Like hitting a chip cut seven instead of a normal eight. Why try to do something special when you normal shot will do. Sometimes you have to, but let that be the exception--especially if you are a weekend player. Along those lines, the best strikers design their basic shot to work for most shots--medium trajectory--with the ability to go up or down.

Some guys shape it more. Kenny Perry--big draw. Bubba Watson--shapes every shot. He's a fancy player--kind of old school--but it fits him and his game.

Most of the adjustments are being made to land the ball a certain yardage. You are trying to account for what the ball does after it lands. Will it skip, stop, or spin back? That adjusts your target number. Maybe the shot is 165 and the greens are firm. So you decide hit it 158. I don't think they get mechanical there. They have trained it. Some might think the number in their heads, others would try to feel the pace or length of swing. I guess you guys would teach PP#3?

My basic thought would be to design a basic ball flight that does not need much adjustment throughout the round other than taking off a few yards. Then spend your time learning and practicing all the manipulations inside 115 yards. Most tour players hit their wedges (partial shots from fairway) relatively low. They feel it is easier to control distance with low ball flight.

As far as mechanical thoughts. I think it depends on the player and how well he is playing. Some guys would have a special thought to cut it or hit it down. If a player is fighting his swing--which happens more than you might think--he might have a key that he thinks about. Many guys don't really understand what they do or why but they know how to adjust to make the ball go at the flag. Or say the main flaw (whatever the cause) is the get fast with the lower body, a player might think "quiet legs" walking into the shot.

A far as just bombing it. The guys swing pretty hard. Maybe full out only a few times a day, but still pretty hard. They definitely pick their spots. On thing most people don't know is when to let out the shaft. My theory is opposite of what many might think. Alot of people swing hard on long par fours and short par fives. On these holes, it is critcal to be in the fairway, because you have to hit long iron, hybrid, or wood. The time to go after it is a long five par that you can only reach if you smash it, but you can still lay up OK if you miss fairway. Short par fours where you can get close to the green is the other spot. There is no reason to swing extra just to get one club closer.

I'll say more later. Welcome your questions. Maybe a new thread if you like. There are some other caddies that read this forum who might chip in.

Originally Posted by 12 piece bucket (Post 43193)

5. Do caddies have groupies?

Sorry man . . . Answer the ones you feel like.

Originally Posted by 12 piece bucket (Post 43193)

HB . . . Thanks for the fantastic information! You need to write a book . . . great stuff!

You said ask questions . . . so I'm askin'! Feel free to say "Dorkboy, I ain't answerin' none of them stoopid questions." I had to ask though.

1. What in your opinion do you think the top areas of the game handicap players should work on to get better . . . top 3 maybe?

2. How much difference would "course management" make to a 10 handicapper?

3. Do you believe in the sports psychologist type dudes?

4. How important is pre-shot routine?

5. Do caddies have groupies?

6. Do most tour players love golf or is it a J.O.B?

7. What's the best golf course as far as strategy goes?

8. If the tour players had a big wrasslin' cage match, who would win?

9. What's the funniest tour story you can share?

10. Do you ever think "man I could hit this shot better than my guy?"

Sorry man . . . Answer the ones you feel like.

Originally Posted by Hennybogan (Post 43202)

My first year on tour (after a little over one year on the Nike tour (97-98 ) I caddied in the Tour Championship. When I ran into some buddies at home, they said, "Wow, you must be a great caddie." Must reponse was, "That might be true, but I'm not good enough to help your games." So take it all with a grain of salt.

1. Tough question because it really depends on what's missing. I am a big believer in mechanics. You have to be able to hit it well enough that your decisions matter. Short game. Understanding of the way to play. Ask me this one again.

2. For a ten--not a bad golfer. Management is huge. One point I made before was how would you play a hole if you had to play it 100 times for the lowest score. No crazy chances. But you have to take your shots to make some birdies to offset physical errors.

3. Totally believe in sports psychology. But not some of the strange things psychologists want you to do. To me, it all flows from desire and goals. Where you want to be as a player determines all the actions that are necessary to achieve that status. I'm not really a result type goal setter. I believe that results flow from the process. So improve the process. Mechanics, management, routine, poise. The perfect mindframe is to walk up to the shot, read the lie , wind, yardage, etc. Pull the club and swing like you think will go where you aim. No outcome. Just make the shot.

Of course, the architects mess with you, the past messes with you, crowds, position in tourney. Some guys just aren't dumb enough to allow it to be so simple. I think psychologists can help you understand how you behave when you play your best without adding a bunch of junk to work on. Also, golf is a brutal and lonely game. Traveling around playing golf for a living can be a grind, even if you can't wait to get to the course every day. A really good psychologist can help keep you fresh and focused. I do think there is alot of work to be done in the future along the lines of a freethrow shooter making 100 in a row. Phil does it with 3 footers. Someone will learn to do it with full swings like Hogan did.

4. Preshot routine is important enough that I have snapped at a player for varying his. He said something about not making any putts and wanting to mix it up. I said, "You'll never be any good doing that." I work pretty hard on my swing but don't play that much. I used to play every day for years for money. Recently I played in a Ryder Cup style match. I had not played under that kind of pressure in a long time. Even though I drove it flawlessly, I didn't play great the first day because I didn't hit my irons close. Thinking about it between the second and third days (did not play day one) I realized that it was my routine. The one thing that's mandatory is really locking in on the target. Committed to that the next day. Much better in my singles match. I want the routine to be fairly short and crisp. Act like you know what you are doing. Make it look like you are confident. It might rub off on you.

5. Not that follow the tour. Might be some that know you are coming to town.

6. Love or JOB. Usually both. When it's going really good, it's fun, but that's a result of doing your work. It's a life of highs and lows. Look at Jay, last year he wasn't sure if he should keep playing. You know about this year.

7. One is St. Andrews. You know it's a thinking course when you are hitting driver, the next guy hits a five wood, and the last guy hits a five iron. Augusta gives you alot of choices--atleast before the last changes, which I have not seen. My favorites are like Westchester (exactly) traditional. Tough pins. Firm greens. Really windy. Where a good score is a good score. I don't like courses that dictate where you have to hit it.

8. Might be Will MacKenzie.

9. Ask Neal Lancaster.

10. If you ever think you could hit the shot better than your man, it's time to find a new player.

Originally Posted by Hennybogan (Post 43202)

My first year on tour (after a little over one year on the Nike tour (97-98 ) I caddied in the Tour Championship. When I ran into some buddies at home, they said, "Wow, you must be a great caddie." Must reponse was, "That might be true, but I'm not good enough to help your games." So take it all with a grain of salt.

1. Tough question because it really depends on what's missing. I am a big believer in mechanics. You have to be able to hit it well enough that your decisions matter. Short game. Understanding of the way to play. Ask me this one again.

2. For a ten--not a bad golfer. Management is huge. One point I made before was how would you play a hole if you had to play it 100 times for the lowest score. No crazy chances. But you have to take your shots to make some birdies to offset physical errors.

3. Totally believe in sports psychology. But not some of the strange things psychologists want you to do. To me, it all flows from desire and goals. Where you want to be as a player determines all the actions that are necessary to achieve that status. I'm not really a result type goal setter. I believe that results flow from the process. So improve the process. Mechanics, management, routine, poise. The perfect mindframe is to walk up to the shot, read the lie , wind, yardage, etc. Pull the club and swing like you think will go where you aim. No outcome. Just make the shot. Of course, the architects mess with you, the past messes with you, crowds, position in tourney. Some guys just aren't dumb enough to allow it to be so simple. I think psychologists can help you understand how you behave when you play your best without adding a bunch of junk to work on. Also, golf is a brutal and lonely game. Traveling around playing golf for a living can be a grind, even if you can't wait to get to the course every day. A really good psychologist can help keep you fresh and focused. I do think there is alot of work to be done in the future along the lines of a freethrow shooter making 100 in a row. Phil does it with 3 footers. Someone will learn to do it with full swings like Hogan did.

4. Preshot routine is important enough that I have snapped at a player for varying his. He said something about not making any putts and wanting to mix it up. I said, "You'll never be any good doing that." I work pretty hard on my swing but don't play that much. I used to play every day for years for money. Recently I played in a Ryder Cup style match. I had not played under that kind of pressure in a long time. Even though I drove it flawlessly, I didn't play great the first day because I didn't hit my irons close. Thinking about it between the second and third days (did not play day one) I realized that it was my routine. The one thing that's mandatory is really locking in on the target. Committed to that the next day. Much better in my singles match. I want the routine to be fairly short and crisp. Act like you know what you are doing. Make it look like you are confident. It might rub off on you.

5. Not that follow the tour. Might be some that know you are coming to town.

6. Love or JOB. Usually both. When it's going really good, it's fun, but that's a result of doing your work. It's a life of highs and lows. Look at Jay, last year he wasn't sure if he should keep playing. You know about this year.

7. One is St. Andrews. You know it's a thinking course when you are hitting driver, the next guy hits a five wood, and the last guy hits a five iron. Augusta gives you alot of choices--atleast before the last changes, which I have not seen. My favorites are like Westchester (exactly) traditional. Tough pins. Firm greens. Really windy. Where a good score is a good score. I don't like courses that dictate where you have to hit it.

8. Might be Will MacKenzie

9. Ask Neal Lancaster

10. If you ever think you could hit the shot better than your man, it's time to find a new player.

Originally Posted by Hennybogan (Post 43207)

Champions walk out of the locker room ready to put a beating on somebody every single day.

Originally Posted by Trig (Post 43222)

Henny,

I just wanted to thank you for joining the site and contributing. Awesome stuff!

-Trig

Originally Posted by Hennybogan (Post 43218)

Bucket,


Besides the bounce, players will roll the leading edge to reduce digging. Most players remove material in the heel so they can open the club more comfortably. I notice that the better a player's short game, the more likely he is to have very particular views on how his wedges are set up.

Originally Posted by danny_shank (Post 43370)

Hi Henny, been fascinated reading your posts. You guys certainly put my course management to shame.

One question, What do you consider when deciding where to tee it up on the tee box? Is it as simple as; hitting a draw then left side, fade then right..

Cheers,

Danny

Originally Posted by 12 piece bucket (Post 43395)

This was in another thread . . . but it would be interesting to get HB and OK's opinion . . .

How important is the long game to scoring low? Or does it depend on the skill level?

Holla!!!

Originally Posted by Uppndownn (Post 43398)

HB & OK,

I look forward to seeing more of Overkill's green mapping technique. Maybe if you get to a scanner we can see a portion of a green layout and how you reflect it. That would be illuminating.

My question is about iron club technology. Do you guys think today's irons are really that superior to sets of a generation or two back? Coud not a good player score nearly the same with say, a set of Bulletbacks from the
60s fitted with the proper shaft and grip? Or Ping Eye 2's ?

How much is real and how much is hype? My thinking is that is is almost always the Indian, not the arrow. I want to hear it from your perspective.

Thanks.

Originally Posted by nuke99 (Post 43375)

Can you please show us an example to correctly chart or draw the break on a green?

I tried to do it and ... I got lost in my own notes lol. How should i do it?

There are also green where a downhill chipshots are not advisable, how would you chart that or note that?


Thank you!

Originally Posted by Uppndownn (Post 43398)

HB & OK,

I look forward to seeing more of Overkill's green mapping technique. Maybe if you get to a scanner we can see a portion of a green layout and how you reflect it. That would be illuminating.

My question is about iron club technology. Do you guys think today's irons are really that superior to sets of a generation or two back? Coud not a good player score nearly the same with say, a set of Bulletbacks from the
60s fitted with the proper shaft and grip? Or Ping Eye 2's ?

How much is real and how much is hype? My thinking is that is is almost always the Indian, not the arrow. I want to hear it from your perspective.

Thanks.

Originally Posted by Overkill (Post 43415)

99

I,m not sure where you would like me to start, so lets start at the beginning.

I like the idea of the green being on a grid; the grid can be whatever size you like but I like 5x5; walk off your green, fit it within your grid, then walk of the ridges and fit those in your grid; the top of ridges could be indicated by a single line with cross strokes indicating slopes, long or short, depending on the severity of the slope. You could also mark areas with H or L to indicate high and low points.

Next, I use the level to show the 'fall lines' in various sections of the green; this is where a put would roll in a straight line and I draw an arrow to indicate this. The longer the arrow the steeper the slope. As I indicated earlier, the level I use is a circle; the steeper the slope, the farther the bubble moves from the centre; a straight line extended through the bubble and the centre is the fall line.

Now, before I bore you to death, let me explain something. This work I do is for my comfort level; these guys can read and putt greens or they would not be out here. I may only be required to utilize my 'charting' once or twice a round. However, where it is invaluable, is when a pin is placed in what looks like a flat area, or on top of a ridge, or at the bottom of a valley.

There is a new green at 'Congressional' this year and I was out charting it early this morning when a player came through. He had a short putt for par and missed it right; he tried it again and missed it again. I put the level down and guess what , the green sloped to the right, but you could not see the slope by just looking at the green.

In a valley, I find the bottom with the level and then I note how many paces that is from the edge of the green. Now, when a pin is placed in that area, depending on which side of the 'bottom' it is, I will know which way the putt will break, even if I can not see it.

What I'm trying to say is that charting is of the most value when the slope cannot be seen. Then, of course you have to get the 'putter' to believe you////

By the way, when you are 'charting' you greens, don't forget about the GRAIN//// just thought I would throw that in///

With regards to your chipping question, I have never noted that type of situation, I believe the player's comfort level will dictate the best course of action.


:salut: