Foot Flare
 

I recently was a Pace of Play official at Doral for the pro-am. I walked the entire round with Scott Hoch. He struck the ball very well.

He used a very narrow stance on every shot... maybe hip width with a driver... and had both feet perpendicular... no flare.

Later I watched a few other guys on this. Steve Elkington had his left foot flared out about 40 to 45 degrees with his driver. There were all kinds of variations on this.

I know this can influence Hip Turn and Hip Action.

What do you think?

Lagster,

Foot Flare indeed not only influences the range of motion of the hips.... Left Foot turned out ...restricted in the backstroke....freer in the Follow-Through.....It also affects the amount of 2nd Axis Tilt (Side Bend....In case you're wondering 1st Axis Tilt is a Forward Bend) through the Downstroke and Follow-Through. The more the foot flare the less 2nd Tilt and a perhaps a lower launch angle ....The less foot flare with a wider stance the more 2nd Axis Tilt with a higher overtaking rate of the components may produce a higher launch angle.....Foot Flare affects the entire machine!!!! Elkington sets-up this way with an intended ball flight in mind!!!!

I know this because one of my dearest friends is currently working with Steve Elkington and Greg Norman.


I can see clearly now...The rain is gone!!! or is it the FOG is lifting!!!!

Annikan

Other things that restrict hip turn?
 

I did some filming of my swing today. I was working on a Hogan-like set up with the right foot pulled back and shoulders square. I did not flare my left foot hardly at all. I noticed on the film that having the right foot back allows for a much bigger turn and I think it's causing me to sway off the ball a bit. I was thinking of flaring the left foot as the cure, but I certainly don't want a lower launch angle. I like the way the ball is leaving my driver right now - and I have no problems getting through the ball. It's just the sway I'm concerned about....

In The Golfing Machine, there is only 1 Axis Tilt.

Side bend.

The other is called Waist Bend.

That two axis tilt thing is a Mac deal.

Trojan Horse
 

Thanks for clearing that up, Brian. Even many Authorized Instructors think that 'secondary axis tilt' is a TGM concept. It is not, and now we know its origin.

Tilting the Axis
 

Hey guys,

I don't want to argue the point but clarify 2-H where it says...(3rd paragraph)...."On Plane" Right Shoulder Motion is possible only by tilting its axis--the spine. See 7-14....so lets go to 7-14 where it says....The Hip Turn as a Stroke Component is strictly the product of the Knee Bend and the Waist Bend. Not otherwise could the weight be shifted and the Shoulder Turn Axis be tilted with moving the head.".....hmmm is that where O'grady came up with the 2nd axis tilt???

DG

Mac's "idea" was to be different.

He was successful.

Definition on side bend and waist bend please
 

For my understanding what is the definition of these two terms?
Steve

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by brianmanzella:
In The Golfing Machine, there is only 1 Axis Tilt.

Side bend.

The other is called Waist Bend.

That two axis tilt thing is a Mac deal.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Posted by Yoda:
Thanks for clearing that up, Brian. Even many Authorized Instructors think that 'secondary axis tilt' is a TGM concept. It is not, and now we know its origin.

Hip action creates side bend!!!
 

O.K. so I got out the book and tried looking up the terms. Let me see if I got this right.
Side bend is a product of maintaining the right knee impact fix position, maintaining a steady head so the shoulders are rotating around a fixed axis, and starting the downswing with a hip shift/turn which tilts the spine.
This allows the right shoulder to turn on plane. Without the hip turn the right shoulder would turn over the delivery line not down it and cause throw out.
Is that close? :?:
Steve

That is good to know, now I can stop looking through all my notes on TGM of where this term is. Thought maybe it was one those items to be forth coming in version 7 or from Homer's notes.

Thanks, scratch another one off the list.

Martee....that made my day (I'm easy).

Gentlemen,

I think you might want to reconsider what you've stated as only one "Axis Tilt"( Then youre suggesting the Shiftless Hip Turn and the Rotated Shoulder turn Components as THE WAY!)

....It's NOT a MAC THING...some BASIC BIOMECHANICS would see it from a "clearer perspective"....Should the Stationary Post in the illustration of 1-L be vertical or 0 degrees or should it be tilted forward???? ....A Waist Bend is ....A Forward Bend in Biomechanics....A hip slide with a stationary head is a lateral bend to the right in Biomechanics...NOT THE SAME!!!

You see...or you don't see.... to be "Accurate there's Not one Tilt, two tilts, three tilts, there are four !!! Mac says there are 3 Axis Tilts or changes throughout the Stroke...So get your facts straight!!!! ...

2 Tilts is not a Mac Thing, 3 Tilts are a Mac thing, 4 Tilts and 2 Rotations are an Anotomical THING!!!!

The Human Body or Machine moves through 3 Basic Planes of Motion with 2 Directions ...X Axis, Y Axis, and a Z Axis... with 2 directions in each... A Changes in Waist Bend(TGM Term) are Flexion or a Forward Bend and Extension moving back toward "neutral" or beyond. A Hip Slide which moves the Center of Gravityside to side is located at the intersection of Planes these somewhere in the pelvic region. This slide causes lateral bending...Right And Left (Thus allowing the right shoulder to move down plane) Then youo have rotational along the Longitudinal Axis of rotation "Clockwise" and Counter-Clockwise"... So ....Let's see thats

1. Forward Bending
2. Backward Bending
3. Lateral Bend - Right
4. Lateral Bend - Left
5. Rotate Clockwise
6. Rotate Counter- Clockwise

This is for all motion of the 13 Major Joints for the "HUMAN Machine"

That's 4 Bends(Tilts) and 2 Rotations = 6 Motions

The theory is the Stationary Post....Yes....No Disagreements!!!! However, In order for this theoretical or conceptual Post to stay centered....The Spine Angle cannot possibly stay the same...WHAT THAT"S HERESY!!!! YOU"RE WRONG ANNIKAN ...While the inclination of the trunk ideally stays pitch forward any wheres from 20- 40 degrees forward the actually spine changes it's orientation to the 3 Anotomical Planes in 3 Dimensional Space while maintaining the original coordinates much like an airplane flying to a specific destination in a moving through YAW, PITCH , and ROLL!!! You guys who fly planes know exactly what I'm talking about!!!!
]
1-L is a Machine Concept ....Exactly that and it can feel like a machine...lliterally...

The Human Machine is a REALITY... and It was designed to ADAPT, ADJUST, LEARN, DEVELOP, SURVIVE, DISCOVER, SURVIVE, and SEEK
ETC....

It's so unfortunate people do not seek to understand, but only want to be a understood - Stephen Covey

Pride blinds and harden's hearts, God's Grace "opens eyes- a changes hearts!!!!

I'm Sorry...If the post represented in 1-L is not the human Machine then I willing to admit that I am wrong and I will consent to you a victory!!!!

I love Homer's work...But there are other things that need to be "discovered" He was all over it ....I do not think Mr. Kelley would admit to being "All - Knowing" He had far more humility than that I hav been told.

Yoda, I requested that this thread be closed...I hope you understand why!!!

Annikan

Wow...

Listen, all I am saying is that both axis tilts of Mac's are:

IN THE BOOK.

Homer just called them:
waist bend (Mac's primary axis tilt)
axis tilt (Mac's secondary tilt)

That's all.

And, as far as your post goes:

Does anyone think a REAL TGM guy (is one that know their stuff) doesn't know how the human body can bend one way or the other or be rotated or both.

I knew that when Mac was missing cuts in the early 80's.

The Never Ending Story
 

Annikan my man, you are doing a terrific job in enlightening us all. It would be a shame to turn off the dialog rather than work to change perceptions. We are all about mutual respect here at LBG Golf and would like to continue reinforcing it. Let's not forget in 1-H Homer said "Because of questions of all kinds, reams of additional detail must be made available-but seperately. And probably endlessly". One could argue that The Golfing Machine is not an end unto itself, but a beginning.

P.S. This is not the original Mac thread.

Bagger