Pre Set of Hands @ Address and The Takeaway
 

I like the Ben Dole set up routine where the right foot is cocked inn on the ball posistion line, aim the club, step over with your left 1 inch from that line, turn the foot out, set your right, and adjust width for club if needed. My question is when aiming the club face are you doing it with a slight foreward press? or Do you do it by adjust the face open? I tried it both ways and found that if I open I seem to miss it left alot, ecspecially with the driver. If I foreward press to much I miss it right and have a low ball flight. What I have found is when I square the club with a slight foreward press, my hands are just a little in front of the ball, and it seems to be starting on target line with either a 1 to 3 yard fade, or a slight draw that fades at the end.

Now, the other issue I am having is the takeaway. I am rolling the club open like I feel is correct “Not sucking it inside”...But! the left arm is getting seperation from the body on the BS… At the top of the back swing it is where I want it but, I know this is wrong with the left arm seperation coming off the body..

Thanks,
Burley-

Feel From Mechanics
 

BurleyGolf,

I am also a fan of Ben Doyle's address routine. I believe it adds structure to the set up and creates a routine you can rely on under the gun.

What you are finding through the different set ups is correct for you.
Set up routine can affect the golf swing....like how the club and hands move away from the ball in the backswing (purchase Lynn's premium video with Brian Gay to see a great description) and even clubface position at impact.
It sounds like you have found what works best.

In regards to the takeaway I would check to make sure you hands aren't moving away from your body as you take the club back.

Hope this helps....good luck in your future G.O.L.F.

Sorting Through the Golf Nut's Catalog.

B-Ray

B-Ray-

Thanks for the help, I thought that I might be right with the set up of the hands, it varies from each individual correct? As for the take away, I am aware of the hands but I guess I am scared for the hands to go in working around me, and keeping club out front. I was a Hardy One Plane Guy for a long time, infact I was the ginny pig for most of the drills and concepts. I had videos of me them and now and I sucked the club in bad with a hooded face in the so called lawn mower move to start the back swing. Now the club is rotating open going back and I gues the hands are not working around enough to keep the left arm from creating seperation. Something to work on, I'll get it some how..

Thanks,
BurleyGolf

Burleygolf,

Remember the club works three dimensionally in the takeaway:
Back
Up
and
In

I would check in a mirror or on video to see how your club is moving.
If it's to far in go more up etc.

Hope this helps.

Sorting Through the Circuit Player's Handbook.

B-Ray

B-Ray,

So, I think I have the hands now in the right position @ address... I had some one watch today that knows some about TGM a friend of mine who was John Reigger's caddy, he told me to trace with the hands? I am not sure tracing is a good thing right now for I am not sure what I am tracing is correct. I guess what I want to here from someone on this forum is; "How do I get from address to waist high the correct way"? Is there a certain length to take the club back rolling it open? Is it the right or left the rolls the face open? Do the hands start the roll? I believe I have the rest of the swing and set up figured out it my head, but as you can see I am far from level minded about the take away... I guess at my level the things that are most fought by us are alignment and pressure change in the hands "Throw Away"... I have never felt this confused about my swing, and it's really not the swing just one part the take away...Lol :salut: :happy3:

Thanks,
BurleyGolf-

Got “It” consistant! I fixed the left arm seperation and the take away by working out the take away. I was trying to roll the face from the get go and had no shoulder or hip movement. I found by keeping the face looking at the ball longer you have to use the upper trunk and the left arm does what is supost to. In this new position I can roll the club up and back now with no left arm seperation and turn the hips to bring the hands back to the aiming point with little throw away, and with a more crisp sound like I used to have. Now my bad shots seem to be when I try to hit it too hard and get the hands involved, gets a little heavey! or occational thin! So this is where the tempo and rythem come in and leave the pivot do the work..

Thanks,
Burley-

The pivot will take care of the back and in. Get that magic of the right forearm bending right away for the up part. Most golfers don’t seem to want to get the club head moving up soon enough.

Start the bending of the right forearm right from the start of the take away and work on that with the sequence of the pivot watching in a mirror and you will have a perfect take away in no time.

Lynn talks about this in the Alignment Golf DVD’s. If you don’t have them get them. It will clear up many things about the take away and much more about TGM.

Also the price of $79.95 is a steal for the information you receive. You could spend hundreds of dollars in lessons for the information on the DVD’s.

I suggest you wear out your DVD player watching them over and over many times.

To Better Golf,

John W Rohan-Weaver CMAI, GSEM

Start with it bent!
 

"Start the bending of the right forearm right from the start of the take away and work on that with the sequence of the pivot watching in a mirror and you will have a perfect take away in no time."

May I add that it is advisable to start with the right arm in a bent condition right from start-up. The degree of bend of the elbow is determined by what it takes to keep the right forearm on plane with the shaft (sweetspot plane) at address. Mid-body hands...impact hands...no matter... it is a good idea to give the right forearm a relationship with the sweetspot, or at least very close. Unfortunately for us mortals the temporary immortals on the various tours tend to set up with straight right arms, leaving the impressions that that is the way to go about it. Don't forget both arms are straight only at follow through, ergo anything up plane of followthrough has the right arm bent! Magic of the right forearm!

You are correct it is an important alignment of the right flying wedge and Lynn covers it in detail in the Alignment Golf DVD's.

Well, 5 large buckets later, I am a new man..Lol

I went out and the first 3 buckets 3 different swings, then half way through the 4th I go a phone call from my TGM buddy who set me strait. The rest of that bucket was shakey at best, almost all of the last bucket was great ecspecially after I went in and bent my clubs up from 6 flat to 3 flat. I have a pretty simple move now....! I set up with hands a litlle forward or over the ball, take the club back with the right hand to the top and at the same time turn into my right leg, then on the down swing my weignt moves back to my left while the right hand traces back down to bring the club back to the ball... That is a simple as I can MAKE it..!

Thanks,
Burley-

BurleyGolf,

6 flat is extremely flat.

I would be interested to know how tall you are and if you can measure the distance of your left wrist to the floor??

Let me know if you can do this and get back to me with the numbers.

Thanks in advance for getting these measurements, and I'm glad to hear you had some good practice today. I will add more to this thread in terms of the takeaway tomorrow in an effort to help those interested.

Sorting Through the Instructor's Textbook.

B-Ray

35inch from wrist to floor hands by my side, and in my address position 29inch from the bottom of the wrist to the floor. I am 5 foot 10 1/2.

I bent the clubs 6 flat to achieve a point I wanted to make in a book I wrote about Hogan's swing. I knew I was taller than Hogan and new I could bend them back the other way as needed but, I started hitting it really good and as long as I held my angle there was no toe dig.. Like every golfer does they want to progress and when I started working on some of the TGM stuff last week I found I needed to adjust. The adjust point with lie tape was 3 flat.

I will note one other thing todays clubs are way to upright taking the roundness out of the swing, more hitting now... The clubs are all weighted to get the ball in the air, and self correct mistakes. Now, the funny part about this is the new clubs don't help you if you are hitting it well, they do if your off but not to the extent of what most think. The other thing is the sweet spot has not changed it's still in the middle and the same size, the ball does not know if you are hitting it with a blade or a cavity back. I did a little study awhile back and found that since 1995 that more people shank they ball now more than ever, and there are more people in the game today as well. The New irons are kinda helping and killing the game. Tiger said that he hits his old wood every once in awhile and hits it the same distance as his metal wood, give or take a few yards.. But the metal wood carries about 40 yards further with less roll, and you are less likley to have a miss hit on the toe which is a distance killer in wood drivers. Just food for thought..!

Thanks,
BurleyGolf-

Had the Houston Open Qualifier yesterday, I have been working so hard on the adjustments to my new swing. I started not to play yesterday since it has only been 3 days since I found the TGM setup and right arm takeaway, but I said what the hell. I went out and shot 79 had a double on #1 and # 5, I booged #9, #15, and #18.... No birdies is what got me.. I hit the ball great, had 7 shots that I would call bad and 1 of them was a putt, and 1 was a chip, the other 5 were 2 bad drives, and 1 bad 3 wood, and 2 bad iron shots. I had not penailty strokes and missed 4 fairways and hit 13 greens. If you look at the stats I think it was not that bad. I have some work still to do but getting better. #9 and #18 I tried to force birdy, this is something I thought was needed and I guess trying to hard lead to boogy on both of them,,"Lesson Learned"!

The bad drivers and 3 wood i hit, topped them off the dee box about 60 yards..LOL To steep and trying to hit it to hard!

The Score 79 does not reflect the way I played, I just needed more birdies and more tournamnet confidence. Have to shake off the rust.

Thanks,
BurleyGolf-

Hi Pro, great to see you taking an interest in the GOOD stuff!!!

Kevin

I'm loving me some Lynn Blake, and thats is in every bit of a manly/brute golf way...Lol I think Lynn has the in site and understanding on TGM, and the much bigger scope of the future of golf swings teachings. As some may know I am very knowledgeable about the golf swing and not allot impresses me, and I have heard most of it before. I talked to Lynn last week and he was every bit as kind as I thought he would have been. My ideas are very close to TGM and after studying some, it was a no-brainier to find out more. Every good teacher has his own idea's, but logically speaking Homer gave all the patterns and basically you just have to choose which one to use and what elements goes with it... (Hitter, Swinger, Switter, post aiming point, pre aiming point, hands pivot, pivot hands, right side back, left side open..ect,ect..) The point is I like what LB brings to the table and it goes good with my steak and mash potato's.

Thanks,
BurleyGolf-

I agree Pro, it will be fun to see where you take it. I am a big fan of Brian Gay's swing, be sure you pick up that video lesson. I think it embodies Mr. Blake's principles at the highest level on which you teach. It will be fun to see if you go in that direction as well...

Kevin

KC-

You know my thoughts from the other forum and you liked them and a lot of the other TGM guys liked them, it was just slicefixers followers who did not, and nothing against old slice he is a nice guy. The more information I get on TGM the easier the swinging of the club becomes it seems. I fully changed my swing Tuesday evening after talking with Jeff about the right arm takeaway, and keeping the right butt and shoulder back as long as possible. Then I go out in a PGA Tour Qualifier and hit 13 greens and 10 fairways. Tell me that TGM is wrong...and I will laugh! Just keep putting it together, and I think that the rest will fit in...

Thank,
BurleyGolf-

Just wanted to let some of you see the progress I am making, I am hitting a 9iron in the first vid, and a 5 iron in the second vid. You will be able to see the changes I have made, and the ones I am making...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLtswAX7DBI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWWpufoWCH0

Thanks,
BurleyGolf-

BurleyGolf,

Thanks for getting those measurements to me. Also I am glad to hear you are making progress with TGM and feeling confidence. I apologize for the delay in reponding to your posts I have been very busy teaching and playing golf myself, but today I've found a rainy day in the golf shop to respond.

In regards to your measurements.....Ping would reccommend a 62.25 lie angle on your six iron based on your static measurements. This is probrably considerably upright from your current set.....by the way what are you playing??

Now I am not saying that Ping is always right....but I have done hundreds of fittings over the last two years and I find Ping's static fit (standing measurements) to be with in two degrees of the dynamic fit (actually hitting balls off lie board) 95% of the time.

Also you said your clubs worked fine when you held the angle.

That angle in the wrist is Power Accumulater #2 in The Golfing Machine.
It is the angle formed between your club and left arm by the left wrist.

Power Accumulator's are out of line conditions of the power package....releasing them to inline releases their stored potential.

This should happen in the golf swing.

Refer to 6-B-0 and 6-B-2-0.

Now you don't want to release Power Accumulator #2 too early because that is casting, but post impact PA#2 should achieve an in line condition. I believe your lie angle will get more upright as you do this, and your ball striking will get even better.

Sorting Through the Instructor's Textbook.

B-Ray

Level Wrist
 

I'd have to agree with BRay. In watching the Youtube pre-shot, it looks as though you're trying to keep a Cocked Left Wrist through Impact. The Left Wrist should be in the process of Uncocking. Centrifugal force wants the club to reach an in-line condition, and the attempt to keep the wrist Cocked is in direct opposition to that force. Also, in the pre-shot, it looks like there's no attempt to trace a Straight Plane Line. It looks to me like you're trying to trace a circle.

I would at least try to start with a Level Left Wrist. Then, I would go to Follow Through and see if you can get the Left Wrist Uncocked, when Tracing a Straight Plane Line.

I have just ordered the Alignment DVDs but I feel as if starting with the right arm bent and start takeaway in this fashion I lose my extensor action in left arm. I was told to envisage trying to straigten the right arm on take away to ensure a wide swing arc.

Hopefully the DVD's will clear this up.

Your starting at a good place, the on plane right forearm at address.

The Right Arm is bent until Both Arms Straight. Its trying to straighten (Extensor Action) but is prevented from doing so by the rope like Check Rein Action of the Left Arm. As the Left Arm moves or is moved across the body the Right Elbow bends to accommodate the shortening on one side of the triangle. To move the left arm is to shorten the right side, bend the right elbow. Or vice versa. Confusing but beautiful. Stick with it, you'll learn to love Extensor Action, hard to adopt though it is. Try the search function and enjoy the DVDs.

One more thought.......to attain the on plane Right Forearm and Clubshaft at address and have a bent right elbow, the Right Shoulder and Centered Head have to move around/adjust a little. This is pretty much the position they will be in at Impact. To start in another position at address is to necessitate those head and right shoulder movements dynamically during the swing. A "Wobble". Not so good, very hard to get it done on short shots too where you dont have much time. Another logical, simplification from Mr Kelley.

Sorta like tuning a Machine, a Golfing Machine. Take away all the extra movements and tune out the wobbles to achieve consistent, smooth, long running operation.

I was not really sure where to post this, but I though this was a good, a place as any. Tuesday in Houston I got to work with a few guys and decided that since I had my Nokia N93 video phone I would take a few swings. Hope you enjoy..!

http://www.v1golfacademy.com/SwingSt...3121591833.wmv


Thanks,
BurleyGolf-

Thanks for posting the video.

BG
Nice video thanks!

Thanks Burley, I enjoyed that!

Kevin

Thats off a cell phone? Amazing.

Yea, the stuff they come out with right! This is a Nokia N93 video phone that has golf software like V1 on it. If you saw the last Borne Identity "The Borne Ultimatum" the guys charging the office with guns that had camera's on there gun, thats the cell phone.



Thanks,
BurleyGolf-

Point at it!
 

BurleyGolf,

To me the one plan stuff is a "move" without reference except as to position. You suched the clubhead in IMO because the hands and arms were following the pivoting body. If you continue to trace the straight plane line with the on plane right forearm, the #3PP (sweetspot) for the entire duration of the stroke you will no doubt notice that the club appears to be outside the hands, with good radius etc. But what is especially note worthy is the understanding of the seperation of zone 1 (pivot) , from zone 2 (arms) and 3 (hands) 2 and 3 have seperate identities as well but pivot controlled hands is less precise. Less often now but my bad habit was getting under plane with my left wrist arched and the club face shut (open) at top...the only benefit to this was that my hands were always leading. At times however I did not reestablish the same amount of lean and the ball would go left...way left (where paciderms go to pack it in!) I have "good hands" so I would manipulate it OK most of the time. I posted today already about the importance of learning how to trace the straight base line of my chosen plane. I think the MacDonald drills are great, but as soon as I put a club in my hands my pivot seemed unruly. Tracing a straight line with flash lights laser pointers etc. revealed to me that when I am on plane my pivot was a responsive action. When I focus on my pivot without a club it tells me the extent and feel of the correct pivot...but when I have a club in my hands the pivot as I already said is responsive. EVERYTHING complies with the plane. you drag, you thrust, you hinge on plane. I built a "low bench rail" out of PVC in addition to lasers and flash lights. I hit most of my indoor basic motion shots using this rail. Talk about class time for my hands. I am amazed at how often my chip shots are executed with an off-plane motion. I call them "flatties" ie lacking 3-D impact. I know straight line thrust and tracing are not the same, but I think that the shape of your stroke (plane) comes first.

I challenged my players (six months ago)to do some of the indoor drills for 15 minutes a week. That is roughly 6 hours. The best of the bunch managed 45 minutes...total! Meaning? They want to improve without changing! They do however hit hundreds of range balls! Homer's easy test for being on plane is ridiculously simple...a five year old can tell if he is on plane or not! In golf it is polite to point!

Plane Line Pointing
 

Love this, Okie. Thanks!

:salut:

Okie-

That is pretty good stuff, I had someone explain the difference to me the other day about hands pivot and pivot hands. I have been working on it and could tell an immediate difference. No tire, No impact bag, or No scooby doo in the world is going to help when you have pivot controlled hands I'm finding. I waisted a few weeks but not really, I did get some other benefits out of my practice. I do not have any TGM books, or any of LB'S DVD video's, I have watched some of his video's on the site but most of the information people speak is like Star wars language to me with R-2-D-2, 2-M-3, or 4- Barrel.. It is harder to learn and I think I said in my first post some where forgive me if I ask stupid questions.. Even though I do not know all the terms yet, I do believe I have the moves I want to make now, the hands controlled pivot is the biggest, but now I have one last issue the left arm "Extensor" once I get that in place things should start looking up. Not that there bad now! I am just trying to learn and mostly experimenting. I can scrap it around on any course in the mid 70's with pretty much any swing, but I really want to try and learn this style of the TGM the right way in case I ever have a student that has read the Book and wants to learn. We are always learning, Hogan was experimenting up until he lost his mind and could not any more. Thanks for the information it is a big help.

Thanks,
BurleyGolf-

Never Apologize...!
 

BurleyGolf,

Never apologize...for sincerity! You MUST purchase "Alignment Golf." Not only is it a fantastic primer for all things TGM, but it is also complete in itself. What I mean by complete is that a wonderful stroke pattern can be assembled using it as a lone resource. Heck, that applies to DVD #2 (Drills) alone! I gush over few things. There is more information in the book than you will ever need or could possibly could use. Lynn and VJ cut to the chase. I wish it actually was a VHS deal, it would mean Lynn produced it sooner! :laughing9

Thanks you too, Burley, for sharing your TGM 'journey' so far - it's been enlightening for us too. To see a guy with your credentials with, like, zero ego and an 'eyes wide open' humility is awfully cool.

I'm looking forward to hearing about you're progress with Extensor Action and hands controlled pivot (and probably very soon hinge actions, as well).

Another tidbit for you - In one of my favorite Chuck Evans videos, Chuck describes a Homer Kelly quote.


I should add that this quote from Chuck's video is copyrighted, and is posted under the assumption that Chuck wouldn't mind my quoting him on the LBG forum. However, if for any reason anyones uncomfortable with it, I will remove it.

Thanks, thats just how I am laid back and easy, at least thats what the girls tell me..LoL :)

No, I am trying to share my progress with you guys like someone who is new to the game. Like any instructor I have some of my own ideas, but this is not the place for them, I try to be-careful what I say not to show any disrespect to LB and his website. I choose to explore TGM because I like what is being said here, and it is the closes to my own ideas about the golf swing. I will post more on my progress with some video soon, if nothing else you guys can have a good laugh at me struggling, I do...

Thanks,
BurleyGolf-

uncocking lft wrist
 

brand new to the site and very interested in tgm. Been working on the stack and tilt so the terminology of tgm is new to me. could someone explain the uncocking of the lft wrist?

I'm not a stack and tilt guy but I did talk to Plummer a while last week in Houston, great guy. On the other hand I am not a TGM guy, I have talked to many wonderful people here though, I am just learning the proccess for my own benifit. I would say though I am a mixture of the two above with a little of my own style and research which comes accross in my new book that just came out. I like everything I read here, and you will get lots of help from the people on this forum. I have asked some pretty dumb questions and was treated with respect, so I am very sure you will feel welcomed.

Thanks,
BurleyGolf-

The cocking and the uncocking of the left wrist is the #2 Power Accumulator in 'The Golfing Machine.' It works in a similar fashion as if you were using a hammer, so there really isn't a wide range of motion, just simple cocking and uncocking.

The left wrist should be uncocked at address. It then eventually 'loads' by getting cocked and then 'unloads' by getting uncocked. I guess you could say that most golfers 'load' the left wrist in the backswing as it gets fully cocked at the top of the swing. But there are golfers who 'float load' the club where the wrist does not get fully cocked on the backswing and actually gets fully cocked on the downswing (i.e. Sergio, JB Holmes)

Unless you have some other answer you are looking for, that's my shot at it.



3JACK

Level
 

Make sure it's Level at Address. It will be Level at Impact, although it will be in the process of Uncocking.