Moe Norman's swing
 

Moe Norman

I have been studying Moe Norman's swing and I believe that there are many inaccurate perceptions of MN's swing. For example, some golfers believe that i) he shifted planes, ii) that he swung on the TSP; iii) that he had zero accumulator #3 angle and iv) that he gripped the club in his left palm.

I believe, based on studying all the material at Moe Norman Golf Academy, that all these beliefs are incorrect.

Here is a link to a previous thread on MN.

http://www.lynnblakegolf.com/forum/s...ght=moe+norman

In that thread there is a DTL sequence of photos which implies that MN shifted planes. However, the camera angle is not directly behind MN, and I believe that the "apparent" plane shift is due to camera angle parallax error.

Consider this DTL view as viewed from the front.

http://moenormangolfacademy.org/inst...efinition.aspx

I believe that it shows that his i) left arm is not perfectly in line with his clubshaft at address (not a zero PA#3 angle alignment); ii) that his swingplane is slightly below the TSP; and iii) that he swings on a single plane without any plane shift.

If you are not convinced, watch these videos of his swing (registration, which is free, may be required).

http://link.brightcove.com/services/...ctid1494878341

http://link.brightcove.com/services/...ctid1557806826

Watch his driver swing in the above video clinic and see if you can identify any plane shift.

http://link.brightcove.com/services/...ctid1678226166

I think that MN's swing very closely resembles an Iron Byron swing.

Ken Martin of the MNGA, also has a discussion of MN's grip and he states that the the heel pad of MN's left hand was above the grip, and that he didn't have a left hand palm grip.

Jeff.

I have started to try and swing like Moe Norman, and I find it to be the easiest and most successful (in terms of accuracy and ball trajectory/distance) swing style that I have ever tried. I have previously tried many different swing styles (eg. standard body-pivot swing ala Hogan, Hardy OPS and 2PS, Leslie King left arm swing, TT right arm swing, Croker arm swing) and the Moe Norman swing style works much better than any of those swing styles for me.

I am interested in learning how the Moe Norman swing works from a TGM perspective. Have any of you used the Moe Norman swing style and do you think that it is swinger's action or a hitter's action? I have never previously been a hitter, but the "feeling" that I get when using the MN swing style is a "feeling" of hitting with the right arm (a "feeling" of actively extending the right elbow). However, there is an additional "feeling" of having the right shoulder actively moving behind the right arm hit so as to provide additional swing power. In other words, it doesn't "feel" like my conceptual understanding of a four barrel hitter's action - which I presume occurs in the following sequence 4:1:2/3 with the right shoulder providing pivot-driven power to PA#4 before the release of PA#1. It "feels" like the release of PA #4 and #1 are occurring near-simultaneously. I realize that "feel" and "reality" don't always coincide so I am interested in informed opinions from forum members who have tried the MN swing style.

Jeff.

If no plane shift means that the club travels up and down the same line, the Mo dosen't have a no-shift swing in that video. The clubhead is more inside/shallow on the backswing than it is on the downswing, isn't it?

Bigwill

I don't think that he takes his clubshaft more inside on the backswing if you view his swing from a DTL view (seen from the front).



Image 1 is his clubshaft plane at address. Image 2 and 3 show the clubshaft plane during the backswing with image 3 showing the end-backswing clubshaft plane. Image 4 is a composite image of image 1 and image 3.

Jeff.

so the plane has shifted up but its a zero shift

Pistol

By my relaxed standards, that degree of plane shift is so small that it represents a zero plane shift backswing. More importantly, plane shift is only important in the downswing, and I don't think that MN shifts planes in the downswing.

Jeff.

Jeff, I was referring to the driver video you posted. Also (my opinion), I think that it can be difficult to accurately determine plane shift using stills, especially when few frames are used.

Also, in the above stills, Moe appears to be aiming left of the camera, possibly making it difficult to accurately ascertain what he's actually doing. If you had some of Moe more directly down the line, with more frames presented, it would be easier to draw an accurate conclusion, I think.

This is where you may run into misunderstandings. Your definition of plane shift is different, or at least more narrow, than the TGM definition. If you're saying that he dosen't shift from the top down, you may be right. But he does go through shifts from address to the top.

Bigwill

Those stills were derived from a swing video.

Here is a link - you can come to your own conclusions.

http://link.brightcove.com/services/...ctid1494878341

Here is another swing video of interest.

http://link.brightcove.com/services/...ctid1678226166

Jeff.

When is a shift not a shift?
 

Jeff
I think it is best left as either someone shifts or they don't, not that he hardly shifts so lets ignore it. TGM is a precise system remember "not incomplete or vague"
John g