pics of wrist impact position--anti roll?

[hue]

Sorry I re-read the statement in bold. I'm not sure I know what the heck it is saying. But all I'm saying is that it could be argued that 10-2-D could be a better grip for some than 10-2-B due to reducing the variable of Swiveling. I think Mac O'Grady actually was a proponent of this.
b

Mac O'Grady suffered from over acceleration issues in the downstroke which leads to loss of club head lag which means the shaft and club head is doing funny stiff closing coming into impact. The stronger left hand grip will help negate the effects of this but really we should all be striving to maintain and sustain club head lag rather than building in modifications to deal will the loss of it in the downstroke . Keep the swing on plane in the downstroke, have a flat wrist at impact and sustain club head lag past the ball until both arms are straight and there is no left shot. IMO that is the real anti left way of doing things .

[mattsdad]

Sorry I re-read the statement in bold. I'm not sure I know what the heck it is saying. But all I'm saying is that it could be argued that 10-2-D could be a better grip for some than 10-2-B due to reducing the variable of Swiveling. I think Mac O'Grady actually was a proponent of this.

Sorry if I have confused the issue at hand. But again my position is that 10-2-D with the Turned Left Hand ain't necessarily a bad grip choice.

12 piece,

Thanks. That's what I thought you were trying to say.

RT

[EdZ]

Agreed. I would say there are more long players with a Turned Left Hand than not.

There are a couple reasons for this. Generally speaking, a turned left hand equates to a slightly more forward leaning shaft at impact, which delofts the club and adds distance.

Also, there are power advantages in allowing the cupped left wrist at the top, which is in contrast to what Trevino and Pressel do, then keep the wrist flat (or in Trevino's case, slightly arched) at the top - this is the root of why their power is not maximized using the 10-2-D grip (and why their accuracy is).

Couples and Daly use CF to square up the club. They both have excellent Rhythm, which combined with the cupped left wrist at the top (and the ability to retain their angles deep into the downswing because of the cup) contribute to their distances.

So if you use 10-2-D as an angled hinge swinger, you can still have power, given good Rhythm, but 10-2-D as a hitter is generally less powerful (because as a hitter, they do not allow the cup at the top). Depending on the player, the more 'massive' impact of a 10-2-D hitting motion can make up for 'most' of the distance differences, but never all of it IMO.

[12 piece bucket]

There are a couple reasons for this. Generally speaking, a turned left hand equates to a slightly more forward leaning shaft at impact, which delofts the club and adds distance.

Also, there are power advantages in allowing the cupped left wrist at the top, which is in contrast to what Trevino and Pressel do, then keep the wrist flat (or in Trevino's case, slightly arched) at the top - this is the root of why their power is not maximized using the 10-2-D grip (and why their accuracy is).

Couples and Daly use CF to square up the club. They both have excellent Rhythm, which combined with the cupped left wrist at the top (and the ability to retain their angles deep into the downswing because of the cup) contribute to their distances.

So if you use 10-2-D as an angled hinge swinger, you can still have power, given good Rhythm, but 10-2-D as a hitter is generally less powerful (because as a hitter, they do not allow the cup at the top). Depending on the player, the more 'massive' impact of a 10-2-D hitting motion can make up for 'most' of the distance differences, but never all of it IMO.

Good post. I think that handicap players could possibly benefit from 10-2-D if the required release motion (hammering) is understood. It eliminates some of the moving parts and helps negate throwaway. Most amateurs suffer loss of distance from throwaway and leakage. So 10-2-D could be a "stepping stone" grip.

[bergsey]

Good post. I think that handicap players could possibly benefit from 10-2-D if the required release motion (hammering) is understood. It eliminates some of the moving parts and helps negate throwaway. Most amateurs suffer loss of distance from throwaway and leakage. So 10-2-D could be a "stepping stone" grip.

My copy of the book hasn't yet arrived but i'm curious whether my grip is similar to what has been described.

I grip in my left hand in the "natural" position in which it hangs - turned inwards and i can see 3 knuckles. The left wrist has a slight bend given it is turned so much. I thought i already had a strong grip but my coach made it stronger again.

Interestingly played in a couple of pro-ams recently and the pros have always commented on my grip, usually "no one plays with a grip that strong these days you need to fix that and make it more neutral"

[12 piece bucket]

My copy of the book hasn't yet arrived but i'm curious whether my grip is similar to what has been described.

I grip in my left hand in the "natural" position in which it hangs - turned inwards and i can see 3 knuckles. The left wrist has a slight bend given it is turned so much. I thought i already had a strong grip but my coach made it stronger again.

Interestingly played in a couple of pro-ams recently and the pros have always commented on my grip, usually "no one plays with a grip that strong these days you need to fix that and make it more neutral"

Here is how Mr. Kelley defined 10-2-D . . .

10-2-D STRONG DOUBLE ACTION T/V/A Now the Right Wrist is Vertical and the Left Wrist is Turned to the top of the Clubshaft so that the Left Wristcocking motion will be on the same line as the Right Wrist Bend. The #3 Pressure Point and the left thumb are also on the same line as the Right Wrist Bend. Double Action – same as 10-2-C.

Very compatible with the Cut Shot procedures. Any Left Wrist Bend at Impact Fix should be maintained throughout the Stroke.

This Grip Type features maximum Wristcocking action and strong support for both Acceleration and Impact loads. The palm of the Right Hand moves toward Impact exactly like a paddle-wheel rotating On-Plane – no separate Rolling Motion until after Impact. See 10-10-C.

Don't listen to those people you CAN play golf with that grip. You can win majors with that grip. You can be considered the best ballstriker of all time with that grip.

The key is knowing HOW YOU MUST RELEASE. So go get your hammer . . .

Colonel,

Put a 10-2-D Grip -- Left Wrist Turned On Plane -- on a hammer whose head faces to the left. Then, drive a nail into a wall on your left. That is 'Throwing the Clubface at the Ball'. And it's a good thing. In fact, if you've got a 10-2-D Grip, it's the only thing! Through Impact, there is only Uncocking (Wrist Motion) and zero Roll (Hand Motion).

The quote from 4-D-0 (Release Motions) assumes the 10-2-B Grip (Left Wrist Vertical to the ground). Unlike the Release Motion required by the 10-2-D Grip (Wrist Motion only), the On Plane Uncocking of the Left Wrist (Wrist Motion) must be followed by the Roll of the #3 Accumulator Angle (Hand Motion). This Sequenced Release simultaneously returns the Left Wrist to Vertical and Squares the Clubface.

To alternatively square the Clubface by 'throwing' the Club past a Bending Left Wrist -- a Horizontal Wrist Motion -- is as disastrous as it is common. This is a different 'throw' -- ThrowAWAY! -- and it is far different than the Swinger's Release Wrist Throw (a Perpendicular Wrist Motion).

[neil]

Very interesting thread.I have been meaning to post on this subject after making some grip changes.I thought,until I read this thread that Ihad changed to 10-2-D.But now i don't think so as i still feel like i am horizontal hingeing,though i have found that my drives now have a slight fade -everything else is straight/draw.Is there a "twiglight zone "between 10-2-B & 10-2-D?. just when i thought i was making progress

[bergsey]

Don't listen to those people you CAN play golf with that grip. You can win majors with that grip. You can be considered the best ballstriker of all time with that grip.

The key is knowing HOW YOU MUST RELEASE. So go get your hammer . . .

Here's some pics of my grip would be interested to hear your thoughts. I use the way my left hand naturally hangs as a guide. Ends up being a grip that most pros say is way too strong... my standard shot shape is a slight draw with the irons tending to a hook with the woods. The hardest shot for me to hit is left to right (fade or slice)

[annikan skywalker]

Mac O'Grady suffered from over acceleration issues in the downstroke which leads to loss of club head lag which means the shaft and club head is doing funny stiff closing coming into impact. The stronger left hand grip will help negate the effects of this but really we should all be striving to maintain and sustain club head lag rather than building in modifications to deal will the loss of it in the downstroke . Keep the swing on plane in the downstroke, have a flat wrist at impact and sustain club head lag past the ball until both arms are straight and there is no left shot. IMO that is the real anti left way of doing things .

Suffering??? The only thing suffering here .....is the Ball!!!



Where is the loss of clubhead lag here?...Over-Acceleration?

Perhaps we all suffer from the "menace of over acceleration" from time to time...but Mac is definately not suffering here!!!

[EdZ]

Here's some pics of my grip would be interested to hear your thoughts. I use the way my left hand naturally hangs as a guide. Ends up being a grip that most pros say is way too strong... my standard shot shape is a slight draw with the irons tending to a hook with the woods. The hardest shot for me to hit is left to right (fade or slice)

I would consider that a grip you can most certainly play excellent golf with. Assuming you have a basically flat left wrist at the top, your flying wedges and plane are likely quite good. With good exensor action, you no doubt feel very 'set' at the top, and indeed, throughout your entire motion.

Nice work. Post some video or a sequence if you are able

A note regarding your fade difficulties.

Keep your right hand and left thumb where they are, and get the back of the left hand closer to matching the clubface. The key is to keep that thumb 'aft'. You might also check your grip size. The grip you have generally goes nicely with a slightly larger grip (your left hand fingers should just barely touch your thumbpad).