Jimmy Ballards Book/Teachings

[6bmike]

Ballard works for me! Very simple--the Golf Machine is not! I'd argue that Ballard does not teach a sway. Almost every great player in the world moves his/her head to the rear on the backswing--that's not a sway unless your weight gets back past the center of your rear foot!

I'm glad it does.

I took a buch of lessons from a Harvey Pennick taught touring pro. He said Harvey's main key for him was to "get your left shoulder and head back over his right(back) knee on the backswing and then just let everything go toward the target".

Sounds like a nice pivot. Ballard doesn't believe in a pivot.

On the subject of early release, I'll point out that neither Jack Nicklaus nor Tiger Woods holds off release, and in fact, both start releasing the clubhead early in their downswings.

Texsport

Yes, so does Watson- it is called a sweep release. Els, Hogan ans Sergio use a snap release. TGM explains all of this. Sweep relase is wonderful for a driver, less so for wedges- but you can. If you want I can show you pictures of Jack, Tiger and Watson using a snap release. Good golfers can perform move than one release.

I'm glad Ballard works for you. You say that TGM doesn't, since much of Ballard is explained in TGM book, what doesn't work for you? What is TGM swing in your opinion and who taught it to you?

Id just love to see Ballard swing the club just once- he doesn't on any of the tapes I have.

[Texsport]

I'm glad it does.


Sounds like a nice pivot. Ballard doesn't believe in a pivot.


Yes, so does Watson- it is called a sweep release. Els, Hogan ans Sergio use a snap release. TGM explains all of this. Sweep relase is wonderful for a driver, less so for wedges- but you can. If you want I can show you pictures of Jack, Tiger and Watson using a snap release. Good golfers can perform move than one release.

I'm glad Ballard works for you. You say that TGM doesn't, since much of Ballard is explained in TGM book, what doesn't work for you? What is TGM swing in your opinion and who taught it to you?

Id just love to see Ballard swing the club just once- he doesn't on any of the tapes I have.

It's not so much a case of parts of TGM that don't work as the whole, as Ballard working much better. I read TGM many times, marked the sections that seemed to pretain to my swing, tried to execute, but saw no improvement.I'm not a beginner, having had a handicap between +1 and -2 most of my life.

The snap release led to hooks for me, as it does/did for Els, Hogan and Sergio.

By the way, Ballard says the best golf swing in the world belongs to Annika Sorenstam--another sweep release player, if I'm not mistaken. Her swing seems to adhere to all of Ballard's principles closely.

My son is a PGA head club pro and he guided me to Ballard. No one has ever taught me TGM swing--attempted self learning.

Texsport

[6bmike]

It's not so much a case of parts of TGM that don't work as the whole, as Ballard working much better. I read TGM many times, marked the sections that seemed to pretain to my swing, tried to execute, but saw no improvement.I'm not a beginner, having had a handicap between +1 and -2 most of my life.

The snap release led to hooks for me, as it does/did for Els, Hogan and Sergio.

By the way, Ballard says the best golf swing in the world belongs to Annika Sorenstam--another sweep release player, if I'm not mistaken.

My son is a PGA head club pro and he guided me to Ballard. No one has ever taught me TGM swing--attempted self learning.

Texsport

Snap release- some call it a delayed hit- leads to hooks? If Hogan, Els and Sergio hook the ball it isn't from their release.

The sweep release is a fine way to strike a ball. So is a snap release. Use whatever works best for you- that is the beauty of TGM- options.

How did you try to alter Ballard's swing with bookmarks from the book? Not everything is compatible. And why?

What improvement were you going for with such a low HC?

Everything in Ballard’s swing philosophy is covered in TGM. All is good, in fact he made a lot of money preaching accumulator number four. I still say he has no idea how hips function.

[Texsport]

Snap release- some call it a delayed hit- leads to hooks? If Hogan, Els and Sergio hook the ball it isn't from their release.

The sweep release is a fine way to strike a ball. So is a snap release. Use whatever works best for you- that is the beauty of TGM- options.

How did you try to alter Ballard's swing with bookmarks from the book? Not everything is compatible. And why?

What improvement were you going for with such a low HC?

Everything in Ballard’s swing philosophy is covered in TGM. All is good, in fact he made a lot of money preaching accumulator number four. I still say he has no idea how hips function.

I haven't tried to alter or modify any of Ballard's ideas expressed in his book. As far as use of the hips is concerned, since I am a natural right-to-left player, I find that the faster I drive my right hip toward the ball on the downswing, the less chance I have to hit a hook.

Improvement goal? I'd like to be able to work the ball both ways more consistently. Draws are no problem but reliable fades are more difficult.

Texsport

[fmlutz]

I also grew up learning the Jimmy Ballard method and it worked well for me as long as my timing was good. The things I never really got were his concept of "springing the shaft" and his idea of coiling behind the ball. Springing the shaft causes a lot of throwaway for me and I never really could hit down on the ball. His idea of the coil has too much movement, IMO. Jimmy says that the spine shifts over to the right leg and then unwinds to the left. For me that was way too much lateral movement and it was hard to time, (I still fight the crazy legs today because of this movement). I like the Manzella, Riggs, TGM idea of the spine staying over the ball and the upper body turning over the right leg. This gives me a much more stable pivot and my body is quieter in the DS. I will say that I really did like the Ballard method, I just really changed a few of his ideas for my swing. I like the idea of firing the right side. Ballard's ideas work when you can get all of the parts correct.

Mike

[6bmike]

I haven't tried to alter or modify any of Ballard's ideas expressed in his book.

Then how did you use The Golfing Machine information that failed?

As far as use of the hips is concerned, since I am a natural right-to-left player, I find that the faster I drive my right hip toward the ball on the downswing, the less chance I have to hit a hook.

Where is that right hip before you drive it to the ball? Has it re-positioned itself 45 * from address position, if so how?

Improvement goal? I'd like to be able to work the ball both ways more consistently. Draws are no problem but reliable fades are more difficult.

Texsport

Learn Hinge Actions- for a fade learn an Angled Hinge Action. It has a natural fade to the ball flight. (move it back with a closed clubface for a draw using AH)

You can use a Horizontal Hinge action with the ball moved back to produce a fade since the clubface hasn't finished closing.

Build a machine and you control the ball and control the game.
I can't imagine studying with a one suit fits all instructor.

mike

[Texsport]

Then how did you use The Golfing Machine information that failed?

Where is that right hip before you drive it to the ball? Has it re-positioned itself 45 * from address position, if so how?


Learn Hinge Actions- for a fade learn an Angled Hinge Action. It has a natural fade to the ball flight. (move it back with a closed clubface for a draw using AH)

You can use a Horizontal Hinge action with the ball moved back to produce a fade since the clubface hasn't finished closing.

Build a machine and you control the ball and control the game.
I can't imagine studying with a one suit fits all instructor.

mike

TGM machine didn't fail me as far as modifying Ballard. I tried swing adjustments using TGM way before Ballard. It's just that Ballard's ideas worked better for me.

My right hip is probably 45* rotated from address at the top of the backswing. Since I've freed up my left foot and allowed it to roll and lift slightly on the backswing i've eliminated any tendency to hang back/reverse pivot. Also, more weight transfer is required to make Ballard swing work for me. Fat or blocked shots would result without full weight transfer back and through.

I agree that one swing for all is not realistic but I also believe that everyone must slightly modify the basic principles of any swing theory to accomodate personal physique, strength, and timing issues.

Texsport

[6bmike]

TGM machine didn't fail me as far as modifying Ballard. I tried swing adjustments using TGM way before Ballard. It's just that Ballard's ideas worked better for me.

What do you see as the "TGM way" to swing a golf club?

My right hip is probably 45* rotated from address at the top of the backswing. Since I've freed up my left foot and allowed it to roll and lift slightly on the backswing i've eliminated any tendency to hang back/reverse pivot. Also, more weight transfer is required to make Ballard swing work for me. Fat or blocked shots would result without full weight transfer back and through.

I still see all that movement as a sway or at least a big horizontal movement off the ball- it really moves the incline flat swing path horizontally when the left shoulder moves perfectly well around a stable spine. I understand Ballards argument as to why he says it isn't a sway- I tried to believe it myself but couldn't. I found that you can turn and rotate and the ball flies. Just be thought on it.

I agree that one swing for all is not realistic but I also believe that everyone must slightly modify the basic principles of any swing theory to accomodate personal physique, strength, and timing issues.

Texsport

That is what TGM is all about. I have choices not only in the way I want to build my stroke but I can build strokes for a short game, scoring irons or drivers, too.
Take for an example, this month in Golf Magazine, it spoke of a full shoulder turn with the hands high like VJ or Els. Right ! Not many people can do that (or should). The Golfing Machine (I can write that without a trademark- huh?) is perfect for all sizes, shapes and ages.

[Delaware Golf]

It's not so much a case of parts of TGM that don't work as the whole, as Ballard working much better. I read TGM many times, marked the sections that seemed to pretain to my swing, tried to execute, but saw no improvement.I'm not a beginner, having had a handicap between +1 and -2 most of my life.

The snap release led to hooks for me, as it does/did for Els, Hogan and Sergio.

By the way, Ballard says the best golf swing in the world belongs to Annika Sorenstam--another sweep release player, if I'm not mistaken. Her swing seems to adhere to all of Ballard's principles closely.

My son is a PGA head club pro and he guided me to Ballard. No one has ever taught me TGM swing--attempted self learning.

Texsport

I had the opportunity to watch Annika up close at the LPGA championship, I managed the driving range for the tournament last June...to me...it looked like Annika is not a full sweep releaser but a random sweep releaser with a shoulder turn throw...like a 10-24-C release with a 10-20-C and 10-20-E combination trigger types. If I didn't use the right arm swing, I would be using that type of swinging stroke pattern.

DG

[birdie_man]

Tex,

Hogan used a Snap Release throughout the successful half of his career....

....in fact, I don't think I've EVER seen a swing of Hogan where he wasn't using a Snap Release.

He didn't hook it later on in his career, I'll tell you that....

By generally saying, "later on in his career," I mean when he was the Hogan everyone knows....the "one of the greatest ballstrikers of all time" Ben Hogan.....

The Ben Hogan who, as Moe Norman said, "was the only other guy who hit it on my (Moe's) level."

The guy who arguably reached the highest level of pure skill of any golfer ever.

He didn't hook it! Snap Release.