Clearing up tidbits on TGM

[tongzilla]

The Swinger's Motion is On Line whereas the Hitter's Thrust is Cross-Line (7-23). Hence, the (Cross-Line) Angle of Approach procedure is not compatible with Swinging.

Thanks for the reply Yoda

But, confusingly, the 10-5-E Closed Plane Line can be worked into the Swinger's procedure, e.g. to hit a draw.

In the Hitter's Angle of Approach procedure, an alternative 10-5-E Closed Plane Line becomes the Delivery Line and is erected on the Angle of Approach. The Clubhead then covers that Line and hence does not approach it from the Inside. This leads to one of the book's more obtuse quotes: "There is no Angle of Approach in an Angle of Approach procedure."

When you say "cover", you mean visually cover (i.e. from the player's view) don't you? I ask because the plane cannot be so upright that it's vertical to the ground!

Thanks for your confirmations.

[Yoda]

...confusingly, the 10-5-E Closed Plane Line can be worked into the Swinger's procedure, e.g. to hit a draw.

When you say "cover", you mean visually cover (i.e. from the player's view) don't you? I ask because the plane cannot be so upright that it's vertical to the ground!

The Swinger using 10-5-E to hit a Draw is not the same thing as the Hitter using 10-5-E as the Angle of Approach Delivery Line. The former Traces the Delivery Line -- 'points at it' with the Clubhead -- whereas the latter 'Covers' it (also with the Clubhead). This Covering -- the Clubhead directly above the Delivery Line -- is 'for real' and not merely visual.

Covering does indeed cause the Hitter's Plane to be steeper. However, it does not cause it to be Vertical. Instead, per 2-J-3, its Angle is dictated by the Clubshaft motions required for the Clubhead to cover the Angle of Approach and its extensions (before Impact Point and after Low Point).

The good news is that all Delivery Lines -- whether the true Geometric Plane Line or its Visual Equivalents (Arc and Angle of Approach) are Traced by the Right Forearm and the #3 Pressure Point. So, as always, the discipline is to get your mind out of the Club and into your Hands.

[tongzilla]

The Swinger using 10-5-E to hit a Draw is not the same thing as the Hitter using 10-5-E as the Angle of Approach Delivery Line. The former Traces the Delivery Line -- 'points at it' with the Clubhead -- whereas the latter 'Covers' it (also with the Clubhead). This Covering -- the Clubhead directly above the Delivery Line -- is 'for real' and not merely visual.

Covering does indeed cause the Hitter's Plane to be steeper. However, it does not cause it to be Vertical. Instead, per 2-J-3, its Angle is dictated by the Clubshaft motions required for the Clubhead to cover the Angle of Approach and its extensions (before Impact Point and after Low Point).

Here is what I am thinking:

All Delivery Lines, including the Angle of Approach, are inscribed on the face of the Inclined Plane. Because the new Plane errected is based on the Angle of Approach (of the old Plane), as we move up the new plane (i.e. go up and in and back), we will pointing at this Delivery Line, but not actually covering it.

Thanks, lets hope I can clear this up!

[Yoda]

All Delivery Lines, including the Angle of Approach, are inscribed on the face of the Inclined Plane. Because the new Plane errected is based on the Angle of Approach (of the old Plane), as we move up the new plane (i.e. go up and in and back), we will pointing at this Delivery Line, but not actually covering it.

Thanks, lets hope I can clear this up!

No, Leo, that is incorrect. To say that you "point at this Delivery Line" (the Angle of Approach) is to say that there is an Angle of Approach to the Angle of Approach. And there is none! The Delivery Line IS the Angle of Approach.

Said another way, there is no Visual Equivalent to the Visual Equivalent.

[tongzilla]

No, Leo, that is incorrect. To say that you "point at this Delivery Line" (the Angle of Approach) is to say that there is an Angle of Approach to the Angle of Approach. And there is none! The Delivery Line IS the Angle of Approach.

Said another way, there is no Visual Equivalent to the Visual Equivalent.

Ok, ok, but...

The NEW 10-5-E Plane Line IS (the proxy for) the Angle of Approach, correct?

If that's true, then you ALWAYS point at/trace the Plane Line (1-L-6), no?

...slowly but surely we are getting to the heart of the problem!

Lets crack this!!

EDIT: one more thing to add to the party -- per 10-5-0, all Delivery Lines (On Line or Cross Line) must be executed as Plane Lines with their individual Inclined Planes.

[Yoda]

...then you ALWAYS point at/trace the Plane Line (1-L-6), no?

No.

Again, you do not 'point at' the Delivery Line when it is the derived Angle of Approach. You Cover it.

Here's why:

You already know that the Hitter using the Angle of Approach procedure no longer monitors the true Geometric Plane Line of 1-L-6. Instead, he monitors its derivative -- its Geometric (and Visual) Equivalent (2-J-3) -- the Angle of Approach.

Now, here's your missing piece: The Angle of Approach is not a new true Geometric Plane Line (whether 10-5-E or otherwise). The original Geometric Plane Line, while no longer monitored, remains vitally important as the 'Basic Basic' from which the Angle of Approach was derived. You can substitute the Geometric (Visual) Equivalent for the true Plane Line, but you can't substitue a new true Geometric Plane Line for the original! Remember, any new true Geometric Plane Line means a new Angle of Approach and that, obviously, would be a problem.

Summarizing, the Hitter monitors the Angle of Approach, the Geometric Visual Equivalent of the one and only true Geometric Plane Line. And 1-L-6 is satisfied by Covering this Geometric Equivalent with the Clubhead.

[6bmike]

Lynn, Leo- great stuff. I'll be reading this thread a few times and print it out.


MORE

[tongzilla]

No.

Again, you do not 'point at' the Delivery Line when it is the derived Angle of Approach. You Cover it.

Here's why:

You already know that the Hitter using the Angle of Approach procedure no longer monitors the true Geometric Plane Line of 1-L-6. Instead, he monitors its derivative -- its Geometric (and Visual) Equivalent (2-J-3) -- the Angle of Approach.

Now, here's your missing piece: The Angle of Approach is not a new true Geometric Plane Line (whether 10-5-E or otherwise). The original Geometric Plane Line, while no longer monitored, remains vitally important as the 'Basic Basic' from which the Angle of Approach was derived.

You can substitute the Geometric (Visual) Equivalent for the true Plane Line, but you can't substitue a new true Geometric Plane Line for the original!

Remember, any new true Geometric Plane Line means a new Angle of Approach and that, obviously, would be a problem.

Summarizing, the Hitter monitors the Angle of Approach, the Geometric Visual Equivalent of the one and only true Geometric Plane Line.

And 1-L-6 is satisfied by Covering this Geometric Equivalent with the Clubhead.

Yoda, the above post is a huge one for me to swallow. Wow! I've been trying to get you to say something like that for a few months, and you have finally done it, albeit after many questions from me! Just how you can keep such a huge "missing piece" from public for so long I don't understand. You may have implied it in your previous posts, but you never said it explicitly. I am so happy the word is out now.

By the way guys, 1-L-6 says:
"The Clubshaft always points at the Plane Line except when they are parallel to each other."

Do you think your post above is 100% compatible with Homer's comment:

"Delivery Lines can be "On Line" or "Cross Line" (2-J-3) -- Inside-out or Outside-in. All must be executed as Plane Lines with their individual Inclined Planes.

it's the "with their individual Inclined Planes" bit that's bugging me (or looking at it from another angle, it's your post that's bugging me ). You're saying that it should not be executed with its individual Inclined Plane

God Bless!

[tongzilla]

And 1-L-6 is satisfied by Covering this Geometric Equivalent with the Clubhead.

Thanks Yoda for your help over the last few days. I really appreciate your clarity and persistence in answering my questions.

Now I understand that the 10-5-E used by the Hitter (as a proxy to the Angle of Approach) is not a true Geometric Plane Line. Whenever I see the words Plane Line, I think trace!. Now, I think differently -- I only trace the true Geometric Plane Line (the 'Basic Basic').

One more question. You say that 1-L-6 (this refers to the True Geometric Plane Line, not 10-5-E, yes?) is satisfied as long as the Clubhead covers the Angle of Approach. But since this covering occurs after Low Point also (because we cover the extensions of the Angle of Approach also), wouldn't that take the Clubhead above plane (once again, we are talking about the Basic Basic Plane, right?) hence violating 1-L-6?