Clearing up tidbits on TGM

[tongzilla]

No, Leo, that is incorrect. To say that you "point at this Delivery Line" (the Angle of Approach) is to say that there is an Angle of Approach to the Angle of Approach. And there is none! The Delivery Line IS the Angle of Approach.

Said another way, there is no Visual Equivalent to the Visual Equivalent.

Ok, ok, but...

The NEW 10-5-E Plane Line IS (the proxy for) the Angle of Approach, correct?

If that's true, then you ALWAYS point at/trace the Plane Line (1-L-6), no?

...slowly but surely we are getting to the heart of the problem!

Lets crack this!!

EDIT: one more thing to add to the party -- per 10-5-0, all Delivery Lines (On Line or Cross Line) must be executed as Plane Lines with their individual Inclined Planes.

[Yoda]

...then you ALWAYS point at/trace the Plane Line (1-L-6), no?

No.

Again, you do not 'point at' the Delivery Line when it is the derived Angle of Approach. You Cover it.

Here's why:

You already know that the Hitter using the Angle of Approach procedure no longer monitors the true Geometric Plane Line of 1-L-6. Instead, he monitors its derivative -- its Geometric (and Visual) Equivalent (2-J-3) -- the Angle of Approach.

Now, here's your missing piece: The Angle of Approach is not a new true Geometric Plane Line (whether 10-5-E or otherwise). The original Geometric Plane Line, while no longer monitored, remains vitally important as the 'Basic Basic' from which the Angle of Approach was derived. You can substitute the Geometric (Visual) Equivalent for the true Plane Line, but you can't substitue a new true Geometric Plane Line for the original! Remember, any new true Geometric Plane Line means a new Angle of Approach and that, obviously, would be a problem.

Summarizing, the Hitter monitors the Angle of Approach, the Geometric Visual Equivalent of the one and only true Geometric Plane Line. And 1-L-6 is satisfied by Covering this Geometric Equivalent with the Clubhead.

[6bmike]

Lynn, Leo- great stuff. I'll be reading this thread a few times and print it out.


MORE

[tongzilla]

No.

Again, you do not 'point at' the Delivery Line when it is the derived Angle of Approach. You Cover it.

Here's why:

You already know that the Hitter using the Angle of Approach procedure no longer monitors the true Geometric Plane Line of 1-L-6. Instead, he monitors its derivative -- its Geometric (and Visual) Equivalent (2-J-3) -- the Angle of Approach.

Now, here's your missing piece: The Angle of Approach is not a new true Geometric Plane Line (whether 10-5-E or otherwise). The original Geometric Plane Line, while no longer monitored, remains vitally important as the 'Basic Basic' from which the Angle of Approach was derived.

You can substitute the Geometric (Visual) Equivalent for the true Plane Line, but you can't substitue a new true Geometric Plane Line for the original!

Remember, any new true Geometric Plane Line means a new Angle of Approach and that, obviously, would be a problem.

Summarizing, the Hitter monitors the Angle of Approach, the Geometric Visual Equivalent of the one and only true Geometric Plane Line.

And 1-L-6 is satisfied by Covering this Geometric Equivalent with the Clubhead.

Yoda, the above post is a huge one for me to swallow. Wow! I've been trying to get you to say something like that for a few months, and you have finally done it, albeit after many questions from me! Just how you can keep such a huge "missing piece" from public for so long I don't understand. You may have implied it in your previous posts, but you never said it explicitly. I am so happy the word is out now.

By the way guys, 1-L-6 says:
"The Clubshaft always points at the Plane Line except when they are parallel to each other."

Do you think your post above is 100% compatible with Homer's comment:

"Delivery Lines can be "On Line" or "Cross Line" (2-J-3) -- Inside-out or Outside-in. All must be executed as Plane Lines with their individual Inclined Planes.

it's the "with their individual Inclined Planes" bit that's bugging me (or looking at it from another angle, it's your post that's bugging me ). You're saying that it should not be executed with its individual Inclined Plane

God Bless!

[EdZ]

You are not changing 'the' plane, you are changing how you 'look, look, look' at HOW to stay on it. A difference in PERSPECTIVE in what and how you monitor. You are not 'actually' doing anything different with the club, relative to the 'basic'.

[Yoda]

Do you think your post above is 100% compatible with Homer's comment:

"Delivery Lines can be "On Line" or "Cross Line" (2-J-3) -- Inside-out or Outside-in. All must be executed as Plane Lines with their individual Inclined Planes.

it's the "with their individual Inclined Planes" bit that's bugging me (or looking at it from another angle, it's your post that's bugging me ). You're saying that it should not be executed with its individual Inclined Plane

Yes, Leo, my post is 100 percent compatitible with your quote from 10-5-0. Obviously, the Swinger's On Line Stroke has its own Inclined Plane, so there's no concern there. Regarding the Hitter's Cross Line Stroke, I never said that the Angle of Approach Procedure did not have its own Inclined Plane, but only that its Baseline is Covered by the Clubhead, not Traced. In my post above (Trace or Cover?), I described that Plane as follows:

"Covering does indeed cause the Hitter's Plane to be steeper. However, it does not cause it to be Vertical. Instead, per 2-J-3, its Angle is dictated by the Clubshaft motions required for the Clubhead to cover the Angle of Approach and its extensions (before Impact Point and after Low Point)."

So, we're compatitble on that point, too.

Finally, the "Inside Out or Outside In" part of the quote refers to the fact that, regardless of how you set the Plane Line -- Square (10-5-A), Open (10-5-D) or Closed (10-5-E) -- the Delivery Lines are integral to the Plane (however aligned) and must be so executed. In other words, the relation of 'the Circle (Clubhead orbit) to the Line' will always produce an Inside-Out Impact (2-J-2), even with an Outside-In Stroke.

[12 piece bucket]

Yoda, the above post is a huge one for me to swallow. Wow! I've been trying to get you to say something like that for a few months, and you have finally done it, albeit after many questions from me! Just how you can keep such a huge "missing piece" from public for so long I don't understand. You may have implied it in your previous posts, but you never said it explicitly. I am so happy the word is out now.

By the way guys, 1-L-6 says:
"The Clubshaft always points at the Plane Line except when they are parallel to each other."

Do you think your post above is 100% compatible with Homer's comment:

"Delivery Lines can be "On Line" or "Cross Line" (2-J-3) -- Inside-out or Outside-in. All must be executed as Plane Lines with their individual Inclined Planes.

it's the "with their individual Inclined Planes" bit that's bugging me (or looking at it from another angle, it's your post that's bugging me ). You're saying that it should not be executed with its individual Inclined Plane

God Bless!

Remember though the Angle of Approach is DEFINED by the ORIGINAL INCLINED PLANE. Angle of Approach is defined as "The curved visual path of the orbiting Clubhead, visible on the ground, through Impact Point and Low Point - or the straight line drawn through the same two points. The Impact Point and Low Point are defined by the Orignal Plane not by it's Cross Line proxy, right?

The in the Glossary is the Suez Canal (go around or go across). So the Suez Canal is the ORIGINAL Plane Line. It is always present but the Player has to figure out how to negotiate the Canal by going ACROSS or ALONG.

[Yoda]

Remember though the Angle of Approach is DEFINED by the ORIGINAL INCLINED PLANE. Angle of Approach is defined as "The curved visual path of the orbiting Clubhead, visible on the ground, through Impact Point and Low Point - or the straight line drawn through the same two points. The Impact Point and Low Point are defined by the Orignal Plane not by it's Cross Line proxy, right?

The in the Glossary is the Suez Canal (go around or go across). So the Suez Canal is the ORIGINAL Plane Line. It is always present but the Player has to figure out how to negotiate the Canal by going ACROSS or ALONG.

Colonel B,

Your understanding of TGM is increasing by leaps and bounds, and you are absolutely right that the Angle of Approach, the Impact Point and the Low Point are defined by the original Plane Line. However, you've missed a bit on the other points, and 'ol Yoda is here to help.

The "curved visual path of the orbiting Clubhead, etc." is the Arc of Approach, not the Angle of Approach. The Clubhead Blur of the Angle of Approach would be a straight line through the Impact Point and Low Point.

The Suez Canal example in The Glossary refers to this straight line path through the two points -- the Angle of Approach -- not the original Plane Line. The 'going around' (through the two points) refers to the curved Arc of Approach.

[ww]

maybe good exsample : orthodrome and loxodrome

[6bmike]

maybe good exsample : orthodrome and loxodrome

Loxodrome isn't a straight line, all the time, is it? Awww, but the great circle, the orthodrome- the circle of circles.


WW- check out the Frapper map.