Grooves on Driver face

[Rob2197]

The removal of grooves from the driver was to allow for a stronger face as they made them thinner.

Grooves themselve add very little spin. In Search of the Perfect Swing, they discovered that the smooth face club actually had longer distances, (5i about 5 yds, 9i about 2 yds) which appear to be a result of the less spin on the smooth face.

Now out of the garbage, the biggie was that the grooves allowed for the ball to make more direct contact with the actual club surface.
The square groove arguement I thought really ended up centering on the width of the grooves cause it was creating a surface which dug into the balls surface far more than other clubfaces.

I'm sorry but IMO anything that digs into the surface of the ball can definitely affect spin. I think everyone knows that spin does effect distance, if not then launch monitors wouldn't care to monitor it.

[Martee]

I'm sorry but IMO anything that digs into the surface of the ball can definitely affect spin. I think everyone knows that spin does effect distance, if not then launch monitors wouldn't care to monitor it.

Well according to the USGA testing, irons smooth faced and groove can impart equal amounts of backspin. Noted by the USGA is that smooth faced surface may be less more difficult to accomplish or be consistent with, but none the less can do the same.

Spin has more direct effect if I recall correctly on trajectory and curvature. Obviously this will effect distance but there must be other factors to consider.

The notes in the In Search of the Perfect Swing was

5 iron smooth /grooved
avg speed 144.7 / 144.8
avg spin (revs per sec) 77 / 84
avg angle of projection 12-8 / 12-6
avg carry yds 155 / 154
avg run 31 / 27
avg overall distance 186 / 181

7 iron and 9 iron had very similar results except the spin rates and angles were just about the same. Distances were within a yard or so.

I realize it seems to be logical that the grooves should add, but in reality they do very little unless you are in the garbage, and that is where they allow for the water, etc to get out of the way of the ball to meet the clubface.

[golfguru]

I agree with Martee

Driver groves are for cosmetics only.

The ball does not ride up a wedge face, it compresses into it.

[mb6606]

Typically the golf ball is covered with moisture (except when teed). Has anyone considered the effect that grooves have on displacement of water?

[Rob2197]

I agree with Martee

Driver groves are for cosmetics only.

The ball does not ride up a wedge face, it compresses into it.

Sorry, I should've phrased it better. The wedge compresses the ball and continues in a slightly downward pattern giving it the illusion of the ball riding up the face which is what many people believe happens. Actually, because the wedge is continuing on its downward path it is actually imparting spin similiar to the way an outside to in swing path imparts a slice spin but instead of the face cutting across the ball, the face is cutting down on the ball. Therein is one of golf's opposite affects - hit down to make the ball go up.

I believe that driver grooves are mainly just cosmetic.

I don't know about wedges and irons, though. If a smooth faced iron went further, wouldn't many pros use them. And if they don't have as much trajectory doesn't that prove that grooves affect spin.