How Flat is Flat?

[birdie_man]

The flying wedges maintain the correct impact alignments during the stroke. If you teach someone to change these alignments during the stroke it isn't 'doing it right' by Brian Manzella, its 'doing it wrong' by Brian Manzella. I don't care if its a 10 handicapper or a golfer who's average drive goes 30 yards - The only shortcuts are more and more know how. The flying wedges is a piece of that know how.

But if it works....is it really doing it wrong?

[Mathew]

But if it works....is it really doing it wrong?

Thats the problem it doesn't work....

I thought the goal was to simplify motion, not complicate it...

[Daryl]

Mathew,

Yes, I understand. I use both Horizontal and angled Hinging effectively. I swing. My confusion may exist in the definitions of weak and strong. I agree with strong having the pressure points on the aft side of the shaft and pressure toward the angle of approach. Anything left of that is weak. But let me ask you this: In a strong single action grip, can there be a space between the left thumb and left forefinger? Your answer may solve all my questions. Traditional (less knowledgable) Teaching says yes, but maybe TGM says not necessary but I don't know. Can you answer this?

Also it says somewhere that the #2 pressure point replaces the #3 pressure point in a weak single action grip. Did I say that right. When I get home tonight I'll find the reference.

[tongzilla]

In a strong single action grip, can there be a space between the left thumb and left forefinger?

Yes, there must be a space since the right thumb should be on the aft side of the shaft (when Grip is taken at Impact Fix) to give maximum support during Impact.

[Mathew]

Mathew,

Yes, I understand. I use both Horizontal and angled Hinging effectively. I swing. My confusion may exist in the definitions of weak and strong. I agree with strong having the pressure points on the aft side of the shaft and pressure toward the angle of approach. Anything left of that is weak. But let me ask you this: In a strong single action grip, can there be a space between the left thumb and left forefinger? Your answer may solve all my questions. Traditional (less knowledgable) Teaching says yes, but maybe TGM says not necessary but I don't know. Can you answer this?

Also it says somewhere that the #2 pressure point replaces the #3 pressure point in a weak single action grip. Did I say that right. When I get home tonight I'll find the reference.

In the photos of 10-2-B you can see quite clearly a gap between the thumb and 1st finger. This is how you can have the left thumb aft and the wrist truely flat against the vertical plane your hinge action requires.... or at least closer to it....

I'll have a look at the book at the weak single action grip later on to answer as im not so familiar with the specific variation... how I wish I had Yoda's capacity for remembering everything...

[12 piece bucket]

In the photos of 10-2-B you can see quite clearly a gap between the thumb and 1st finger. This is how you can have the left thumb aft and the wrist truely flat against the vertical plane your hinge action requires.... or at least closer to it....

I'll have a look at the book at the weak single action grip later on to answer as im not so familiar with the specific variation... how I wish I had Yoda's capacity for remembering everything...

You are doing a fabulous job in this thread Mathew. Enjoying your "holding court." These quotes seem to be very "detailed", but Mathew is pointing out the very PRECISE alignments that are critical to the operation of your Machine bustin' up Plane Lines.

Grip type has a HUGE impact on your release motion. Mathew what is your preferred grip type, release motion and "stock" hinge action?

Great posts!

[Daryl]

Mathew,

Let me correct myself in saying that Traditional Teaching methods want the forefinger and thumb to pinch together ala Ben Hogan. I must agree with you in observing the photos that there is a space between the forefinger and left thumb. I thought perhaps that this was an oversight. However the photos also illustrate that there is a difference in the abount of left hand turn between a weak left hand and strong left hand.

If a space is allowed between the forefinger and thumb on the left hand in a weak single action grip, then how does one resolve the "seems like a problem" left thumb not seating perfect with the grip(ie. thumb pad not in complete contact with the grip). If I turn my left hand like the photo of the strong single action the thumb seats fine. Does it matter?

[Mathew]

Mathew,

Let me correct myself in saying that Traditional Teaching methods want the forefinger and thumb to pinch together ala Ben Hogan. I must agree with you in observing the photos that there is a space between the forefinger and left thumb. I thought perhaps that this was an oversight. However the photos also illustrate that there is a difference in the abount of left hand turn between a weak left hand and strong left hand.

If a space is allowed between the forefinger and thumb on the left hand in a weak single action grip, then how does one resolve the "seems like a problem" left thumb not seating perfect with the grip(ie. thumb pad not in complete contact with the grip). If I turn my left hand like the photo of the strong single action the thumb seats fine. Does it matter?

Yup, the usual grip that 'traditional' teaching has the thumb and 1st finger pinched. The 'weak' single action and weak in the sence that the left thumb and pp3 is turned to the top of the clubshaft. To do this grip is problematic to do due to the fact to get the no.3 pressure point on top it is hard for the right wrist to not be turned from vertical. It is 'essentially' possible though. The left wrist will remain unaffected(and is a likely result of the no-gap between the thumb and forefinger style when the wrist is flat to vertical) to repositioning the left thumb and in the photos 10-2-A/B, it is exactly the same as the strong single action grip in 10-2-B apart from the fact the thumb is now on top of the clubshaft instead of aft. Anyways what I'm trying to say is that the strong and weak single action differ only in the location of the pressure points - ideally they will not be 'turned more' from vertical.

[Mathew]

You are doing a fabulous job in this thread Mathew. Enjoying your "holding court." These quotes seem to be very "detailed", but Mathew is pointing out the very PRECISE alignments that are critical to the operation of your Machine bustin' up Plane Lines.

Grip type has a HUGE impact on your release motion. Mathew what is your preferred grip type, release motion and "stock" hinge action?

Great posts!

Firstly thank you for your praise .

My procedure for aquired and total motion is a swinging procedure - 10-2-B Grip, Horizontal Hinging. The swinging procedure nessesitates a sequenced release per law of the flail in 2-K. My Basic Motion however is a push basic hitting stroke with angled Hinging.

I have played around with the hitting procedure with some success but in retrospect, at the time I did, my knowledge was lacking.

[lagster]

Good responses!!

So... is someone like Fred Couples, who has a bent left at the Top, using using Double Wrist Action, or Single with a bend(because of his grip)?