Thanks for the clarifications. Seems like it comes back to the educated hands again.
Mike O - as I was reading your response I had The Open on TV and Stuart Appleby was preparing to hit a shot. You can really see the "carry back" action in his waggle. Your input regarding loading the entire lever assembly is a point I hadn't considered and seems like a good "hit thought".
Comet,
Great question and you have some good answers.
However, I would venture to say, check out Appleby again. I believe he to be a swinger.
Just check it out. For 'carry back motion', check out DiMarco, and compare to Appleby.....
And please, by all means, check back with me - I want to know your thoughts.
Philly,
Will do. Of course I just checked the leaderboard and I guess I won't be able to view any of his 3rd round Open swings . But for sure we'll be seeing a bit of Dimarco this weekend! Let me take a closer look in the gallery (I seem to recall Appleby's in here somewhere) and I'll get back with you.
Thanks for the clarifications. Seems like it comes back to the educated hands again.
Mike O - as I was reading your response I had The Open on TV and Stuart Appleby was preparing to hit a shot. You can really see the "carry back" action in his waggle. Your input regarding loading the entire lever assembly is a point I hadn't considered and seems like a good "hit thought".
CG
Absolutely - keep in mind that loading is at 90 degrees to the entire primary lever assembly (left arm and club), vs swinging which is loaded at 90 degrees to the secondary lever assembly (left wrist and club). Swingers load the left wrist, hitters load the right elbow.
__________________
"Support the On Plane Swinging Force in Balance"
"we have no friends, we have no enemies, we have only teachers"
Simplicity buffs, see 5-0, 1-L, 2-0 A and B 10-2-B, 4-D, 6B-1D, 6-B-3-0-1, 6-C-1, 6-E-2
Absolutely - keep in mind that loading is at 90 degrees to the entire primary lever assembly (left arm and club), vs swinging which is loaded at 90 degrees to the secondary lever assembly (left wrist and club). Swingers load the left wrist, hitters load the right elbow.
Edz,
Can you explain more about the "loading at 90 degrees to the primary lever assembly"? I've never paid much attention to the angle before and I don't think I know what reference plane the 90 degrees relates to. Is it 90 deg to the basic plane being used?
Can you explain more about the "loading at 90 degrees to the primary lever assembly"? I've never paid much attention to the angle before and I don't think I know what reference plane the 90 degrees relates to. Is it 90 deg to the basic plane being used?
CG
Imagine a child on a swing. When you push them, you do it from directly behind them (90 degrees to their motion)
In hitting, now think of your hands (Pressure point #1) as the child on the swing, and the left arm as the chains. Same concept, push at 90 degrees to the motion, but on an angled plane, rather than a verticle one as in the swingset.
Extensor action keeps the chains straight.
In swinging, the picture is a bit more abstract because you are loading at 90 degrees to the plane of the left wrist cock, or more exactly really 'the' plane which is between the arms. The only way to do this is to 'allow' rotation of the left arm in the backswing (startup swivel). This generally gives the 'feel' of getting the left thumb, and even the left shoulder under the shaft such that the left thumb is what loads against the clubshaft, under it. A clear difference in feel due to the rotation of the #3 pressure point, which would then feel on the side of the shaft, vs. behind the shaft with hitting.
__________________
"Support the On Plane Swinging Force in Balance"
"we have no friends, we have no enemies, we have only teachers"
Simplicity buffs, see 5-0, 1-L, 2-0 A and B 10-2-B, 4-D, 6B-1D, 6-B-3-0-1, 6-C-1, 6-E-2
Imagine a child on a swing. When you push them, you do it from directly behind them (90 degrees to their motion)
In hitting, now think of your hands (Pressure point #1) as the child on the swing, and the left arm as the chains. Same concept, push at 90 degrees to the motion, but on an angled plane, rather than a verticle one as in the swingset.
Extensor action keeps the chains straight.
In swinging, the picture is a bit more abstract because you are loading at 90 degrees to the plane of the left wrist cock, or more exactly really 'the' plane which is between the arms. The only way to do this is to 'allow' rotation of the left arm in the backswing (startup swivel). This generally gives the 'feel' of getting the left thumb, and even the left shoulder under the shaft such that the left thumb is what loads against the clubshaft, under it. A clear difference in feel due to the rotation of the #3 pressure point, which would then feel on the side of the shaft, vs. behind the shaft with hitting.
Edz,
Had to incubate some on this (I drew a swingset pic so I could "see" it). It seems like the pushing of the child on the swingset is "in-line" with the motion (zero or 180 degrees), but 90 degrees to the chain. That makes sense to me, as does the analogy of the the left arm representing the chains and PP#1 being the child.
So I interpret it as loading the entire lever at 90 degrees to the lever and directing that loading down the inclined plane.
Does that sound accurate?
Yes, that is the idea. And another way to think of this in the swingers case that may help in understanding rotation....
Imagine that same swingset, on the angled plane - but that the chains turn 90 degrees going back and cross and untwist (roll) going through and cross again (180 degrees on the through swing). See the drills section EdZ drills for an example of this (drill #2, fingers interlocked drill). So the child (back of left hand) faces the target at setup, turns 90 degrees going back to face the same way as the golfer, then turns 180 through to face behind the golfer.
Hopefully that doesn't confuse the issue re: loading, which is, seperate from turn and roll (chains crossing and uncrossing).
As an aside, the swingset image is one of my personal favorites from "How to Feel a Real Golf Swing" - Toski/Love, with my addition of the chains crossing/uncrossing. An outstanding visual for understanding CF in the golf swing.
__________________
"Support the On Plane Swinging Force in Balance"
"we have no friends, we have no enemies, we have only teachers"
Simplicity buffs, see 5-0, 1-L, 2-0 A and B 10-2-B, 4-D, 6B-1D, 6-B-3-0-1, 6-C-1, 6-E-2
Yes, that is the idea. And another way to think of this in the swingers case that may help in understanding rotation....
Imagine that same swingset, on the angled plane - but that the chains turn 90 degrees going back and cross and untwist (roll) going through and cross again (180 degrees on the through swing). See the drills section EdZ drills for an example of this (drill #2, fingers interlocked drill). So the child (back of left hand) faces the target at setup, turns 90 degrees going back to face the same way as the golfer, then turns 180 through to face behind the golfer.
Hopefully that doesn't confuse the issue re: loading, which is, seperate from turn and roll (chains crossing and uncrossing).
As an aside, the swingset image is one of my personal favorites from "How to Feel a Real Golf Swing" - Toski/Love, with my addition of the chains crossing/uncrossing. An outstanding visual for understanding CF in the golf swing.
As a former swinger (up until 5 days ago ), I always felt I had a good understanding for turn, roll, and swivel. The example of the swingset on the inclined plane to describe turn/roll is a verygood analogy.
Gonna take this hitting thing to the course this weekend and see how it works. It should be interesting.
. But for sure we'll be seeing a bit of Dimarco this weekend! Let me take a closer look in the gallery (I seem to recall Appleby's in here somewhere) and I'll get back with you.
Hybrid Mode
