"An "On Plane" Right Shoulder from Start Down to Follow Through"
Impossible....
Think of it this way - the left arm and clubshaft are inline at followthrough.... thus the left arm is onplane and if this straight line is onplane this means the left shoulder is onplane.... Ok now think if the right shoulder is onplane at followthrough which by definition is both arms straight... both shoulders must be onplane, now if both shoulders are onplane and lets say for simplification purposes, you are using the between the shoulders pivot center point which you are a fan of anyways...
Now with this information imagine the stroke in reverse from follow through backwards. Both shoulders are onplane - the point between the shoulders is onplane - now as the right shoulder goes back to the top ... how can the left shoulder ever leave the inclined plane - hint hint it can't....
The onplane right shoulder movement occurs during the initial startdown to throw the primary lever assembly via creating a pressure at pp4 to drive it into impact..... it cannot stay onplane till followthrough....
"An "On Plane" Right Shoulder from Start Down to Follow Through"
Impossible....
Think of it this way - the left arm and clubshaft are inline at followthrough.... thus the left arm is onplane and if this straight line is onplane this means the left shoulder is onplane.... Ok now think if the right shoulder is onplane at followthrough which by definition is both arms straight... both shoulders must be onplane, now if both shoulders are onplane and lets say for simplification purposes, you are using the between the shoulders pivot center point which you are a fan of anyways...
Now with this information imagine the stroke in reverse from follow through backwards. Both shoulders are onplane - the point between the shoulders is onplane - now as the right shoulder goes back to the top ... how can the left shoulder ever leave the inclined plane - hint hint it can't....
The onplane right shoulder movement occurs during the initial startdown to throw the primary lever assembly via creating a pressure at pp4 to drive it into impact..... it cannot stay onplane till followthrough....
Disagree - does anyone believe the downswing is a simple pivot around the spine? Isn't this necessary for your argument to hold?
Disagree - does anyone believe the downswing is a simple pivot around the spine? Isn't this necessary for your argument to hold?
Chris
This is a power package issue and you if try to draw an onplane right shoulder in 3d with the primary lever assembly being inline at followthrough, you'll see exactly what I mean.
This is a power package issue and you if try to draw an onplane right shoulder in 3d with the primary lever assembly being inline at followthrough, you'll see exactly what I mean.
I'm still unconvinced...
Say you did keep the right shoulder onplane to followthrough, and the primary lever assembly ended up inline, in what way would you be off plane (e.tg. over/under etc), or where would the left shoulder be?
Say you did keep the right shoulder onplane to followthrough, and the primary lever assembly ended up inline, in what way would you be off plane (e.tg. over/under etc), or where would the left shoulder be?
Chris
You could draw that one picture in a position - but just tell me how your going to get there. If the right and left shoulder are on a plane any line between that point is going to be onplane too. So if you use a point between the shoulders center for simplicity - that will be onplane too(not quite true but close enough for our purposes).
Now if the stationary point stays onplane - the right shoulder stays onplane - how can the left shoulder leave that plane. Now try to visualise the shoulder motions and ask yourself, how can you have a top of the backstroke where this could happen....it can't....
You could draw that one picture in a position - but just tell me how your going to get there. If the right and left shoulder are on a plane any line between that point is going to be onplane too. So if you use a point between the shoulders center for simplicity - that will be onplane too(not quite true but close enough for our purposes).
Now if the stationary point stays onplane - the right shoulder stays onplane - how can the left shoulder leave that plane. Now try to visualise the shoulder motions and ask yourself, how can you have a top of the backstroke where this could happen....it can't....
Independent movement of the shoulders? They are not a single T-bar. In fact this independent movement need not even occur during the downswin. If both shoulders are forward at the top then they curve forward from the spine. I agree any point between the shoulders would need to be on plane, just not that the spine would need to be between the shoulders - in a linear fashion that is!
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