Swinging and LAG howto?

[golfer24]

In the new swing sequence you do not have a picture right at impact. How can you judge it to be better without this most important frame. It's like most swing sequences in golf magazines, they rarely show impact due mostly to slow shutter speeds cameras.

[golfbulldog]

"One more thought about the "Lag Swing":
It feels a bit "wristy" which seems far away to the TGM basics!
Is it a normal feeling or should I have frozen wrists?"

Yodeli - your feeling of wristy-ness are due to the wrists acting as free hinges - allowing you to experience the inertial forces during transition. If you have previously been using forearm muscles to cast from the top then your wrists will have felt "strong" but wrong!

Maybe what you are feeling is some increased wrist cock on transition to downswing - ie. float loading - but this is perfect way of learning lag sensation in pp3.

I think that when you focus on your right index finger sensation at transition - when you feel most wristy - you will notice that lag sensation is felt - as Comdpa says - on top of the shaft And nearer the Metacarpophalangeal joint of your index finger.

Yodas / 6b 's latest video about lag goes into this in perfect detail- great close up of yoda's pp3 at "end" versus "top". So easy to understand - AND it clears up 7-3 loading stuff too - ie. where should the right forearm be at top and end.

Get your pivot to do whatever it needs to do to hold that sensation as long into downswing and you will look like Comdpa, Sergio, Hogan, Yoda...

[yodeli]

Yodeli - your feeling of wristy-ness are due to the wrists acting as free hinges - allowing you to experience the inertial forces during transition. If you have previously been using forearm muscles to cast from the top then your wrists will have felt "strong" but wrong!

What a revelation! Thanks a lot Golfbulldog to clarify this one!
I was a former pro tennis player who loved to kill the ball! And as such I certainly kept the bad habit to rely on stiffness and force instead of letting the motion flow.

Maybe what you are feeling is some increased wrist cock on transition to downswing - ie. float loading - but this is perfect way of learning lag sensation in pp3.

Yes, bingo again! This is EXACTLY my feeling.
Pleased to link it to float loading (received the Yellow book last week and still learning!)

I think that when you focus on your right index finger sensation at transition - when you feel most wristy - you will notice that lag sensation is felt - as Comdpa says - on top of the shaft And nearer the Metacarpophalangeal joint of your index finger.

Yes, I can feel that.
Something remains unclear: is there something special to do to re-rotate PP3 during the downswing (10-11-0-3 and also mentioned by Yoda on the video)?

Get your pivot to do whatever it needs to do to hold that sensation as long into downswing and you will look like Comdpa, Sergio, Hogan, Yoda...

You guys are good !
What a pleasure and thanks again for all the top quality information.

[yodeli]

I can't resist asking you guys about this one:

Maybe you've seen the Gold Digest's Swing sequences of Sergio and Ernie.

Sergio Quicktime
Ernie Quicktime

When you look a Sergio in slomo, you can see the shaft loading on the downstroke and staying bent until it is waist high.
You can also see how he "Float Loads" with his left wrist cock increasing on transition to downswing (exactly like GolfBulldog said).

But when you look at Ernie, you never ever see a bend in is shaft during the whole swing...and you won't see him float-loading because is left wrist cocking angle stays constant during the transition.

I can't think we could say that Ernie is not loading the clubshaft? So where is the trick?
Is he using xxx-stiff shaft that never bend or what?

One more question with Sergio: I said that his shaft stays bent until it reaches waist high. At this point the shaft seems to loose its bent and even "bounces back".
Does it mean that Sergio has lost his LAG pressure too early?

[golfbulldog]

Good questions going unanswered... usually means difficult to answer!

I am not sure why Ernie's shaft does not bend like Sergios. It probably relates to the timing of maximum stress of shaft - very abrupt loading versus more gradual loading. And also maybe ... the shaft bend profile of the shaft ....? not sure.

Going back to your own LAG problems... I think that delivery path is a good place for you to visit. Experiment with the path the hands take from end/top to impact.

Did you see the youtube clip of Martin Hall on TGC ( see the thread above ( in lounge i think) - KOC posted it.

I played around with a metal ring ( curtain hanging ring) moving up and down the clubshaft or...

Make one of those ball -bearing in the shaft things and see what happens when you take your normal swing - i bet the click is PRE impact. Now during your normal swing feel where your hands are going during downswing...

Now repeat the process but really feel that the hands travel straight towards aiming point( or ball) - this seems to get my ball bearing clicking right on impact...

I am experimenting myself with this ... but it seems to work. Aiming point seems to be a visual equivalent for delivery path??? I may be wrong so experiment and video your self doing it - that way you can't lie to yourself!

[EdZ]

I can't resist asking you guys about this one:

Maybe you've seen the Gold Digest's Swing sequences of Sergio and Ernie.

Sergio Quicktime
Ernie Quicktime

When you look a Sergio in slomo, you can see the shaft loading on the downstroke and staying bent until it is waist high.
You can also see how he "Float Loads" with his left wrist cock increasing on transition to downswing (exactly like GolfBulldog said).

But when you look at Ernie, you never ever see a bend in is shaft during the whole swing...and you won't see him float-loading because is left wrist cocking angle stays constant during the transition.

I can't think we could say that Ernie is not loading the clubshaft? So where is the trick?
Is he using xxx-stiff shaft that never bend or what?

One more question with Sergio: I said that his shaft stays bent until it reaches waist high. At this point the shaft seems to loose its bent and even "bounces back".
Does it mean that Sergio has lost his LAG pressure too early?

The key is that at impact, they both provide 'support' - lag pressure. Ernie is using more of a sweep release vs. the snap of Sergio, a more consistent pattern on Ernies part IMO, easier to control distance in my experience. Ernie is 'lengthening the shaft' - sending force straight down the shaft towards both arms straight.

Re: the lag pressure/shaft motion - yes, sergio has lost his lag pressure or is in the process of doing so, because his shaft is probably not quite the right fit, and/or his aiming point or transition ratio may be off. The clubhead is seeking out its 'in line' relationship to the forces acting on it, which is not, as in Ernies case, straight down the shaft.

[bantamben1]

The reason the shaft unbends is the same reason hogans shaft unbent because he is done accelerating the club from here on through he is basically along for the ride or at least not adding any more speed to the shot. The law of the flail will continue to accellerate the club to a higher speed but his hands can only get him into a good impact position from here.

The reason sergio bends the club more is because of his right elbow getting to his side sooner so he can get more of a straight line delivery path wich gives more of that lag look

[yodeli]

In the new swing sequence you do not have a picture right at impact. How can you judge it to be better without this most important frame. It's like most swing sequences in golf magazines, they rarely show impact due mostly to slow shutter speeds cameras.

You are right, the frame is missing. However I am pretty sure it looks better at impact.
Here's why:

If you compare frame 9 of the "Classic Swing" and frame 8 of the "Lag Swing" you can see the difference in the position of the hands: they both are in front of my right leg...
But, and to me it's a big difference, while in the "Classic Swing" the clubhead is striking the ball and the right wrist is straight (argh!), at this same moment in the "Lag Swing" the clubhead is still lagging behind with right wrist bent.

It means that my hands will be (it's obligatory) PAST THE BALL when the clubhead will strike the ball.

And the stroke feels very different also.

Anyway, I will beg for a better camera for Christmas !