"Use the Bounce of the club" means what in the shortgame???? (excludes bunker shots)

[12 piece bucket]

Ha, Ha, Ha, ......Agreed!

Do you have the book? What did he say about hitting behind it?

I have hit some shots like that intentionally when the ball is sitting crappy. You can hit some soft shots that way. Interested to hear what he has to say. He was the flavor of the month not long ago.

I saw him playing at the Masters back in the 90's . . . he was still sportin' a mullet . . . lookin suuuhwheat.

[300Drive]

Do you have the book? What did he say about hitting behind it?

I have hit some shots like that intentionally when the ball is sitting crappy. You can hit some soft shots that way. Interested to hear what he has to say. He was the flavor of the month not long ago.

I saw him playing at the Masters back in the 90's . . . he was still sportin' a mullet . . . lookin suuuhwheat.

He says on pitch shots, he likes to use the bounce of the club to hit turf first, then the ball (shaft should be vertical or very close to it at impact). He does not like spin on pitch shots, as its less predictable than height + roll.

Mid ball position, 70% weight left (this encourages the downward angle of attack and provides a consistant low point, at which the ball should be placed just in front of that low point), and you pivot around that left post (leg), your arms go inside on the backswing and around you on the forward swing (think, sweep). Soft elbows allow for the swinging from inside, to square, to inside. Angled hinging.

He also says he hits (oops) his chips with his pivot, swinging around his left post.

His overall big key is turning around your spine, and having a consistent low point from which to sweep the ball, chipping or pitching, towards the target without much spin. No Lee Trevino divots from this guy.

[Martee]

I am on the second read of his book. Have to say his pictures don't match all the word description.

I think reading the faults and causes are of value, not that you need to adopt his technique but he cover a wide variety of faults golfers have with chips, pitches and bunker play.

His is big on clubface control but his descriptions IMO don't track with the pictures all the time.

[EdZ]

You know I've often wondered what the hell that meant too . . . Good question 3Billz. Thanks for bringing this up.

EdZ . . . do you INTENTIONALLY hit the ball fat when doing this? I have used that shot some and it works good. But I'm not sure that is what you are saying.

Holla back.

For a bad lie from thick rough around the green, where you need to make 'sure' you get it out, but you don't have much distance to get on the green - yep - I intentially move low point back - just like in a bunker shot.

Keep in mind that does not mean throw away, it means I adjust the machine alignments/ball position/clubface to get my low point under the ball, instead of ahead of it, or even behind for a nasty lie.

All the while the machine moves the same way, the setup determines the result not an in swing manipulation. Far easier than intentionally throwing it away, which while useful at certain times (very high, soft shot) is much harder to do than to simpley align the machine for the result you want.

Using the bounce basically means manipulation of the low point of the clubhead (aiming point), moving it back from where it would be if you were using the leading edge. Still with a flat left wrist.

[12 piece bucket]

For a bad lie from thick rough around the green, where you need to make 'sure' you get it out, but you don't have much distance to get on the green - yep - I intentially move low point back - just like in a bunker shot.

Keep in mind that does not mean throw away, it means I adjust the machine alignments/ball position/clubface to get my low point under the ball, instead of ahead of it, or even behind for a nasty lie.

All the while the machine moves the same way, the setup determines the result not an in swing manipulation. Far easier than intentionally throwing it away, which while useful at certain times (very high, soft shot) is much harder to do than to simpley align the machine for the result you want.

Using the bounce basically means manipulation of the low point of the clubhead (aiming point), moving it back from where it would be if you were using the leading edge. Still with a flat left wrist.

I think you can hit it intentionally fat on cuppy lies and really tight lies too.

[nuke99]

All low handicapper great short game player I know know how to use vertical hinging, throwaways in their chip and pitches, almost all by experiences. And get them closer to the green. The bounce really helps in cushioned lies, even soft turfs, making the club bounce/glides off the thick turf / rough instead of digging or twisting in the rough.

But its not necessary that the hand is ahead at impact we cannot get the bounce working correctly. Just get a bigger bounce .... or wider flange.. IMPO. Instead of digging in fat pitch ( which we shouldn't by the way) it will bounce and glide. Let the equipment work for us.

Of course we can use a good compression, the ball compress great,roll fast, and stop fast around the green with some practice. But I now realized its not as forgiving..There are players like these,and I used to play this way, but the score is streaky. SOFT , 2m2 /4 , low acceleration is the key( even with a flat left wrist and correct aligment) to consistencies /predictable again I agree with Stan on this point.

Though... i am not sure to agree about the ground then the ball,Not sure what he meant by that.. its in my incubator.

[bts]

I have heard this phrase often when in comes to pitch shots. How would we apply that (or should we) from a TGM perspective?

So that the clubhead doesn't dig into the ground-sand or dirt or grass.

[300Drive]

All low handicapper great short game player I know know how to use vertical hinging, throwaways in their chip and pitches, almost all by experiences. And get them closer to the green. The bounce really helps in cushioned lies, even soft turfs, making the club bounce/glides off the thick turf / rough instead of digging or twisting in the rough.

But its not necessary that the hand is ahead at impact we cannot get the bounce working correctly. Just get a bigger bounce .... or wider flange.. IMPO. Instead of digging in fat pitch ( which we shouldn't by the way) it will bounce and glide. Let the equipment work for us.

Of course we can use a good compression, the ball compress great,roll fast, and stop fast around the green with some practice. But I now realized its not as forgiving..There are players like these,and I used to play this way, but the score is streaky. SOFT , 2m2 /4 , low acceleration is the key( even with a flat left wrist and correct aligment) to consistencies /predictable again I agree with Stan on this point.

Though... i am not sure to agree about the ground then the ball,Not sure what he meant by that.. its in my incubator.

The thing about his pitch shots though, which is an adjustment, is the amount of run out they have. Because this technique reduces spin, you must play for the amount of run out to get the ball close to the pin.

Conceptually, I like the simplicity of the motion. Additionally, I like the pitch shot with the pin back, and even flop/lobs from the rough (although, you must adjust ball position forward and open your stance, which he dosent advocate). On tighter pin placements though, I am not sure this is the best option, I think pinching the ball give you a better chance at getting it close.

I like his chipping though, simple, and predictable motion. Also, the use of one club rather than several, is great.

[nuke99]

I didn't think of it that way ... No expert in this but... what my experiences is, ( which is not much anyway) vertical hinging and throwaway make the shots land extremely soft and green stopping than hard compression spinning shots

Hard compression shots easily bounce and check to the unpredictable directions. Especially if the landing area is curvy .. or not flat. I am just talking within 50 yards...

Those hackers can really score around the green.... with ugly steering , and thinking the club should travel straight in straight through scooping action.. Ugly to watch but.. the results... . They don't have a long game but they can score around the green with enough practice.

Just my unprofessional opinion though

[300Drive]

I didn't think of it that way ... No expert in this but... what my experiences is, ( which is not much anyway) vertical hinging and throwaway make the shots land extremely soft and green stopping than hard compression spinning shots

Hard compression shots easily bounce and check to the unpredictable directions. Especially if the landing area is curvy .. or not flat. I am just talking within 50 yards...

Those hackers can really score around the green.... with ugly steering , and thinking the club should travel straight in straight through scooping action.. Ugly to watch but.. the results... . They don't have a long game but they can score around the green with enough practice.

Just my unprofessional opinion though

I was talking about the shaft being vertical to the ground and impact, so there may be ever so slight of a flat left wrist at impact. I summize thats Utleys technique is more of a "draw" motion (inside to inside swing, with mid ball position), with the body pivot doing the work.

Certainly, if you add throwaway, which many times is needed, you will soften the shot, and have little run-out.

Think of the courses we play and for those who do not always hit the green we have 4 places we can miss (excluding bunkers), short where we are on fairway type grass, or left, right, or past the green, where we are more likely to find some rough. And its from the rough that we need height to land the ball and allow it to run (or not run depending on the distance we have to throw it way up in the air) to the hole. Spin from the rough is tougher to come by. So, I think these are the areas that are ripe for the cuts, lobs, flops, and........throwaway!