Basic Motion

[Daryl]

Daryl,

Reading it as Homer wrote "your bolding" in post 32 it just further proves my point.

With zero #3 in basic motion one can employ any of the three hinge actions the clubhead will always finish in the same spot at follow through (both arms straight approx. two feet through) because of zero #3, but the face can be laying back (vertical hinge), closed (horizontal hinge), or closed and laying back (angled hinge). These follow throughs reflect the clubfaces motion through impact and seperation. As edz pointed out the essence of Chapter 2.

Now Zero #3 can make the plane steeper which could make a Vertical Hinge easier to achieve than a Horizontal, but still all three can be achieved.

I know this because my machine can produce these shots, and I've taught it and seen it taught by many of the finest Golfing Machine Teachers in the Land!

Sorting Through the Circuit Player's Handbook and Instructor's Textbook.

B-Ray

B-Ray,

I appreciate your response. I do understand your point of view that one can simulate the Clubface motions associated with the three basic planes while zero-ing out the #3 Accumulator. I don't doubt that you perform this flawlessly and I've seen it done by others as well. I’m not an instructor but I understand the need to teach Hinging in an understandable way.

I’m struggling with two separate issues with naming this demonstration – “Hinge Action”. I'm not opposed to naming it Hinge Action for teaching purposes but I don't think that it's Hinge Action exactly by the book.

First, we all agree that with Zero #3 Accumulator, “all Lag Loading and Hinge Action have Angled Hinging Travel AND Rhythm”. Second, we also agree that the Rotating Shoulders impart “Roll” (closing) to the Clubface.

In your demonstration, Basic Motion prohibits shoulder rotation, “Roll” as we know it, and Zero #3 Accumulator allows only Drive Loading and Angled Hinging Travel and Rhythm.

We have the term “Swivel” which is a rotation of the wrists not dependent on shoulder turn. So, we have the warning; "intentional use of zero accumulator #3 can be useful while unintentional use can be hazardous". I could be wrong, but to me it means Unintentional use (zero acc #3) can be hazardous because Hinge Action must be replaced by a "perfectly timed Swivel" if Hinging other than Angled is attempted.

[HungryBear]

This is a very long discussion that I believe to be all wrong!
In fact I think this whole accumulator #3 and basic motion is an error.
I 'Think" basic motion is an "around impact-low point" exercise, a minerature REAL swing.
I use as my examples LB own work.

LB basic motion

Lynn Blake and V.J. Trolio

vj basic motion

LB teaching Basic motion

Please continue the discussion with the above examples and my comment in mind.

I need to get this basic motion stuff into my head correctly

Thanks
The Bear

[O.B.Left]

Hey Bear do you have the book? There is often some confusion because the entire section 12-5 is labelled the "Basic Motion Curriculum" and includes 12-5-1 Stage One . Basic Motion. 12-5-2 Stage Two. Acquired Motion. 12-5-3 Stage Three. Total Motion. You can see the problem there with people referring to the whole curriculum as "Basic Motion". Those videos you listed are for the most part displaying some work in 12-5-2 Stage Two, Acquired Motion.

In 12-5-1 Stage One, Basic Motion , the list is very specific and says amongst other things, " 2 feet back and 2 through" . First with a short iron and then with a putter. It doesnt get any more Basic than that does it. Were talking about about putt here and not a very long one even.

Good luck with it all.
Ob

[HungryBear]

Hey Bear do you have the book? There is often some confusion because the entire section 12-5 is labelled the "Basic Motion Curriculum" and includes 12-5-1 Stage One . Basic Motion. 12-5-2 Stage Two. Acquired Motion. 12-5-3 Stage Three. Total Motion. You can see the problem there with people referring to the whole curriculum as "Basic Motion".

In 12-5-1 Stage One, Basic Motion , the list is very specific and says amongst other things, " 2 feet back and 2 through" . First with a short iron and then with a putter. It doesnt get any more Basic than that does it. Were talking about about putt here and not a very long one even.

Good luck with it all.
Ob

Thanks O.B.- Yes, I do own the book. 2 copies. the one I refer to most is very dog eared, many loose pages, many colored highlights, 3 or 4 rubber bands to hold it together.
Although I am trained as an engineer I need a forum to work through understanding. I also use all the video clips I can find because they demonstrate LB and other teaching and their understanding of HK's book. Putting is an individual thing and I do not subscribe to it as part of the process, but thats a different story. I took up golf in the early 60's (yes 50 years ago) and learned on my own to "wail the hell" out of the ball. Locked arms, locked wrist straight arms. turn it up and back and crank it down and around. 250-260 straight, wood headed driver, and somewhere I could find it. 1/2 hour on the practice tee an my feet would screw into the ground 4 inches. Often shot in the high 80's at the likes of Torrey Pines South- was $4 green fee in that day and Billy Casper was the tour Pro. But I have not played a lot over the years. you know family etc are more important. I am retired and live in NH. I have pulled the clubs out and decided to do some serious (read correct) swing work this winter as I plan a long family vacation to the west coast next summ an I may even take my clubs. But I want to do it right this time.

[O.B.Left]

Thanks O.B.- Yes, I do own the book. 2 copies. the one I refer to most is very dog eared, many loose pages, many colored highlights, 3 or 4 rubber bands to hold it together.
Although I am trained as an engineer I need a forum to work through understanding. I also use all the video clips I can find because they demonstrate LB and other teaching and their understanding of HK's book. Putting is an individual thing and I do not subscribe to it as part of the process, but thats a different story. I took up golf in the early 60's (yes 50 years ago) and learned on my own to "wail the hell" out of the ball. Locked arms, locked wrist straight arms. turn it up and back and crank it down and around. 250-260 straight, wood headed driver, and somewhere I could find it. 1/2 hour on the practice tee an my feet would screw into the ground 4 inches. Often shot in the high 80's at the likes of Torrey Pines South- was $4 green fee in that day and Billy Casper was the tour Pro. But I have not played a lot over the years. you know family etc are more important. I am retired and live in NH. I have pulled the clubs out and decided to do some serious (read correct) swing work this winter as I plan a long family vacation to the west coast next summ an I may even take my clubs. But I want to do it right this time.

Glad you're here HungryBear.

[KevCarter]

Glad you're here HungryBear.

Yes, welcome HungryBear. Now I'm not the oldest!

Kevin

[bray]

Daryl,

In post 46 where do you get your definition of swivel?

Hinge Action is defined by the book as:
Holding the Flat Left Wrist Vertical to one of the basic planes will impart the same motion to the clubface.

Those motions are
closing-horizontal hinge
layingback-vertical hinge
or closing and layingback angled hinge

This is exacly what's happening in basic motion....the travel of the clubhead is the same when power accumulator 3 is zeroed out, but the hinge action can vary for the shot at hand.

Now you bring up the word swivel
First swivel is not in The 7th ed Golfing Machine Glossary
so we can go to 4-D-0 as reccommended by the index.
There swivel is defined as "actually rotate the left wrists" or later in the paragraph "actually rotate their wrists"

If we define swivel as a rotation of the wrists then all hinge actions have swivel even vertical hinge could be called a reverse roll or swivel.

Now if we look further into this passage it says that

Players must Swivel-actually rotate their wrists-to the parallel to the plane position for the finish after follow through.
We could then define a finish swivel as the rotations of the wrists into the parallel to the plane finish after the follow through.

This means there is swivel in all shots with hinge action, but there is not a finish swivel in a basic motion because follow through is the end of the stroke.

Also I would further state any shot with a flat left wrist has a hinge action.

Sorting Through the Duffer's Bible.

B-Ray

[Daryl]

This is a very long discussion that I believe to be all wrong!
In fact I think this whole accumulator #3 and basic motion is an error.
I 'Think" basic motion is an "around impact-low point" exercise, a minerature REAL swing.
I use as my examples LB own work.

This thread has taken a slight detour but it is still a discussion about Basic Motion.

Long discussions are good. This one has the makings of a great discussion and could go on forever.

"around impact-low point" as you commented. Yes. "Miniature real swing", Yes.

We seem to have reached a sticking point that we're working through. It's a small and maybe inconsequential detail. We agree that using Basic Motion (zero #3 Accumulator, etc.) we can either use any of the 3 basic hinges or "Mimic" any of the 3 basic Hinges.

Which is it? I'm not 100% sure myself. That's why I've asked for clarification and discussion.

I know that to many, it seems silly to even care.