Basic Motion

[HungryBear]

Hey Bear do you have the book? There is often some confusion because the entire section 12-5 is labelled the "Basic Motion Curriculum" and includes 12-5-1 Stage One . Basic Motion. 12-5-2 Stage Two. Acquired Motion. 12-5-3 Stage Three. Total Motion. You can see the problem there with people referring to the whole curriculum as "Basic Motion".

In 12-5-1 Stage One, Basic Motion , the list is very specific and says amongst other things, " 2 feet back and 2 through" . First with a short iron and then with a putter. It doesnt get any more Basic than that does it. Were talking about about putt here and not a very long one even.

Good luck with it all.
Ob

Thanks O.B.- Yes, I do own the book. 2 copies. the one I refer to most is very dog eared, many loose pages, many colored highlights, 3 or 4 rubber bands to hold it together.
Although I am trained as an engineer I need a forum to work through understanding. I also use all the video clips I can find because they demonstrate LB and other teaching and their understanding of HK's book. Putting is an individual thing and I do not subscribe to it as part of the process, but thats a different story. I took up golf in the early 60's (yes 50 years ago) and learned on my own to "wail the hell" out of the ball. Locked arms, locked wrist straight arms. turn it up and back and crank it down and around. 250-260 straight, wood headed driver, and somewhere I could find it. 1/2 hour on the practice tee an my feet would screw into the ground 4 inches. Often shot in the high 80's at the likes of Torrey Pines South- was $4 green fee in that day and Billy Casper was the tour Pro. But I have not played a lot over the years. you know family etc are more important. I am retired and live in NH. I have pulled the clubs out and decided to do some serious (read correct) swing work this winter as I plan a long family vacation to the west coast next summ an I may even take my clubs. But I want to do it right this time.

[Daryl]

This is a very long discussion that I believe to be all wrong!
In fact I think this whole accumulator #3 and basic motion is an error.
I 'Think" basic motion is an "around impact-low point" exercise, a minerature REAL swing.
I use as my examples LB own work.

This thread has taken a slight detour but it is still a discussion about Basic Motion.

Long discussions are good. This one has the makings of a great discussion and could go on forever.

"around impact-low point" as you commented. Yes. "Miniature real swing", Yes.

We seem to have reached a sticking point that we're working through. It's a small and maybe inconsequential detail. We agree that using Basic Motion (zero #3 Accumulator, etc.) we can either use any of the 3 basic hinges or "Mimic" any of the 3 basic Hinges.

Which is it? I'm not 100% sure myself. That's why I've asked for clarification and discussion.

I know that to many, it seems silly to even care.

[O.B.Left]

Thanks O.B.- Yes, I do own the book. 2 copies. the one I refer to most is very dog eared, many loose pages, many colored highlights, 3 or 4 rubber bands to hold it together.
Although I am trained as an engineer I need a forum to work through understanding. I also use all the video clips I can find because they demonstrate LB and other teaching and their understanding of HK's book. Putting is an individual thing and I do not subscribe to it as part of the process, but thats a different story. I took up golf in the early 60's (yes 50 years ago) and learned on my own to "wail the hell" out of the ball. Locked arms, locked wrist straight arms. turn it up and back and crank it down and around. 250-260 straight, wood headed driver, and somewhere I could find it. 1/2 hour on the practice tee an my feet would screw into the ground 4 inches. Often shot in the high 80's at the likes of Torrey Pines South- was $4 green fee in that day and Billy Casper was the tour Pro. But I have not played a lot over the years. you know family etc are more important. I am retired and live in NH. I have pulled the clubs out and decided to do some serious (read correct) swing work this winter as I plan a long family vacation to the west coast next summ an I may even take my clubs. But I want to do it right this time.

Glad you're here HungryBear.

[KevCarter]

Glad you're here HungryBear.

Yes, welcome HungryBear. Now I'm not the oldest!

Kevin

[bray]

Daryl,

In post 46 where do you get your definition of swivel?

Hinge Action is defined by the book as:
Holding the Flat Left Wrist Vertical to one of the basic planes will impart the same motion to the clubface.

Those motions are
closing-horizontal hinge
layingback-vertical hinge
or closing and layingback angled hinge

This is exacly what's happening in basic motion....the travel of the clubhead is the same when power accumulator 3 is zeroed out, but the hinge action can vary for the shot at hand.

Now you bring up the word swivel
First swivel is not in The 7th ed Golfing Machine Glossary
so we can go to 4-D-0 as reccommended by the index.
There swivel is defined as "actually rotate the left wrists" or later in the paragraph "actually rotate their wrists"

If we define swivel as a rotation of the wrists then all hinge actions have swivel even vertical hinge could be called a reverse roll or swivel.

Now if we look further into this passage it says that

Players must Swivel-actually rotate their wrists-to the parallel to the plane position for the finish after follow through.
We could then define a finish swivel as the rotations of the wrists into the parallel to the plane finish after the follow through.

This means there is swivel in all shots with hinge action, but there is not a finish swivel in a basic motion because follow through is the end of the stroke.

Also I would further state any shot with a flat left wrist has a hinge action.

Sorting Through the Duffer's Bible.

B-Ray

[Daryl]

I can't disagree. I can get by the Rhythm issue, but I just can't get passed the "Differences in Travel" issue.

[EdZ]

I can't disagree. I can get by the Rhythm issue, but I just can't get passed the "Differences in Travel" issue.

The difference in travel is certainly related to the amount of #3, but that isn't hinge action or motion.

Hinge action is strickly a clubface/compression concept and ONLY applies from impact to separation. It is a ball/club relationship, nothing to do with the body or anything else at its root.

[Daryl]

The difference in travel is certainly related to the amount of #3, but that isn't hinge action or motion.

Hinge action is strickly a clubface/compression concept and ONLY applies from impact to separation. It is a ball/club relationship, nothing to do with the body or anything else at its root.

Line of Compression? Doesn't it depend on both clubface rotation and path?

[EdZ]

Line of Compression? Doesn't it depend on both clubface rotation and path?

It depends on force vectors, so yes the path is part of the equation, but only as related to the plane/plane line. The ball doesn't care about #3 angle per se. Your feel as a player may, but the ball doesn't care.

Perhaps this conversation can be moved to its own thread, as we are on a bit of a tangent from the original post.

[innercityteacher]

Let me see if I have the essential concept. If I hold the club with a right palm grip ala Moe Norman or use a 10 finger baseball grip, wouldn't I be on the elbow plane back and through?
I'm sorry if this is a stupendously dumb question. I start with my TGM instructor in April and have been trying to decipher the book on my own for over a year.

When the Right Forearm is placed ON Plane at Fix, it gives you a new Right Shoulder Location. If the Right Shoulder starts too high, as in 99.999999999 percent of golfers, you run out of Right Arm before you get to the ball. Most start with a straight Right Arm at Address and return to Impact with a straight Right Arm. It's really powerful.



Hold the Right Forearm and Clubshaft in-line with a Bent Right Wrist on a horizontal Plane. Look at that relationship in the mirror, and then lower the Right Arm and club to the ball.

The best-case scenario is a video camera, a computer with software, and a monitor near the ball. This would eliminate the mirror parallax. In the mirror, the eyes are off Plane, making it difficult to draw conclusions.