Homer assumed Separation to be at Low Point but what if it isnt?

[O.B.Left]

So whats the difference between an inside out impact for a straight line plane line and an inside out stroke?

Is it just a matter of degree?

Does Trackman or D plane measure what we'd call Hinge Action? A rate of clubface closing or whatever?

[nevercrosses]

So whats the difference between an inside out impact for a straight line plane line and an inside out stroke?

Is it just a matter of degree?

Does Trackman or D plane measure what we'd call Hinge Action? A rate of clubface closing or whatever?

You can call it whatever you like. If the clubhead direction while the ball is in contact with the face is pointing right of(whether it is down and to the right or to the right or up and to the right) the direction the face is pointing at separation (assuming a centered strike) the ball draws or hooks or whatever words best desrcibe it. It will have a spin axis tilted to the left (assuming a right hander) and direction of lift perpendicular to that axis.

Trackman and D Plane do not measure hinge action as it is irrelevant. The balls comes off the face at some time no matter which hinge action is employed.

[O.B.Left]

Makes sense, thanks.

Hinge Action irrelevant in what context? Surely you dont mean irrelevant in a general sense. The effects of Hinge Action can be clearly seen in the simplest of shots, a chip shot for instance.

I like what little I know about Trackman , dont get me wrong. If it doesnt measure it as of yet, I'd imagine it will in the future.

[nevercrosses]

Makes sense, thanks.

Hinge Action irrelevant in what context? Surely you dont mean irrelevant in a general sense. The effects of Hinge Action can be clearly seen in the simplest of shots, a chip shot for instance.

I like what little I know about Trackman , dont get me wrong. If it doesnt measure it as of yet, I'd imagine it will in the future.

No, Hinge action is irrelevant in terms of trackman or D plane measurement.

I would highly recommend reading some of their(trackman) newsletters. Very interesting stuff.

[O.B.Left]

No, Hinge action is irrelevant in terms of trackman or D plane measurement.

I would highly recommend reading some of their(trackman) newsletters. Very interesting stuff.

OK will do.

But .........I do know that Hinge action is a factor in ball behavior.......... its been around as long as golf has been played hasnt it? I'd say its central to any good golfer's shot planning, whether he calls it Hinge Action or not.

[Daryl]

Hooks and Slices and Draws and Fades have very different meanings and Set-up procedures.

7-2...For the “True” Hitter, Moving the Ball back (Hook alignment) or forward (Slice alignment) – always with the Clubface aligned to the Target Line per 2-J-1 – gives straightaway initial direction (2-B). Opening the Clubface (Slice Grip) or Closing the Clubface (Hook Grip) at your normal Impact Fix, produces Pushed Slices and Pulled Hooks and so require a compensating Target Line adjustment to make it square to the changed Clubface alignment.

For the “True” Swinger, “Opening” the Plane Line (10-5-D) until it is square to the Clubface alignment at the new “Aft” location, will produce a “Fade.” With the Ball moved Forward, “Closing” the Plane Line (10-5-E) square to the Clubface alignment at the new location, will produce a “Draw.” The Curve of the their paths, after the straightaway initial direction, will be proportional to the divergence of the Plane and Target Lines. Herein, “Path” terms (Ball Path etc.) refer to total Ball behavior, whether or not it remains straightaway. “Line” terms (“Target Line” etc.) refer to the straightaway direction of Aim.

D plane applies Grip adjustments to change Clubface Alignments relative to Clubhead Path. "D-Planers" are Hookers and Slicers.

If a Swinger (relying on CF to Square the Clubface for Ball Separation) used his standard Procedure for Drawing and Fading, then, additionally applied a Grip Adjustment, then, he would hit Low Draws and High Fades, or High Draws and Low Fades without sacrificing the Line of Compression.

Drawing and Fading refer to Plane Line Adjustments, Hooking and Slicing use parallel Plane and Target Lines.

Or, "call it whatever you like".

[Daryl]

I like what little I know about Trackman , dont get me wrong. If it doesnt measure it as of yet, I'd imagine it will in the future.

Trackman measures Ball Flight with Doppler Radar. Only "Ball Flight". It uses "calculations" to report Spin Rate. That's why you need to tell Trackman the Club that you're using is a 6 Iron. What happens if you punch in "4 Iron" and used a "6 Iron"?

D Plane Theory doesn't use the concept of Hinge Action, Line of Compression, etc. It recognizes "Moment of Inertia" of the Ball as a "Listed" factor in "Effective Loft" but the connection to this "Advanced Level" of "Ball Control" is ignored because it isn't the primary purpose of "D Plane".

Factors Affecting Drag, Lift, and Spin (Page 83)

It is of interest to consider factors by which the golfer may reduce the spin of a ball and thereby reduce the drag and lift of the ball. One way is to reduce the effective loft of the club. This may be done by choosing a different club with less loft.

The Effective Loft of a Club (Page 81)

The effective loft of a club moving toward the target and striking the ball will usually not be the loft of the club. The effective loft of the club will be the angle between the normal to the face of the club and the velocity vector of the clubhead in a vertical plane containing the ball and the target.

The effective loft of the club, EL, depends on several factors. If the golfer is using a club with a flexible shaft, the effective loft of the club will depend on its flexibility and on any peculiarities in swinging the club. We shall not attempt to analyze this factor. Golfers have expressed their sentiments in this matter by saying that they want stiff shafts. One aspirant for the tour said, "The stiffer the better." The effective loft of the club depends on whether the clubhead at impact takes a divot. If it does, the velocity of the clubhead at impact will be at some angle below the horizontal, and the effective loft will be decreased by this angle. When these two factors, the stiffness factor and the divot factor, are omitted from further discussion, any effect of these two factors may simply be added to or subtracted from the effective loft EL.

Neglecting these factors, the effective loft of a club may be shown to be given by the expression EL=L+a(i)-,B(i)-y, where L is the loft of the club, a(i) and B(i)are a and B when the clubhead is in contact with the ball, and y is the backswing angle of the arms (see Fig. 2.3). The angles a(i) and B(i) will be determined by a calculation for each individual swing. We shall see that these angles depend on various characteristics of each swing.

The effective loft of the club is one factor in determining the spin of the ball, its rate of rotation. When a club with zero effective loft hits the ball, the ball leaves the clubface with no spin. When the effective loft is greater than zero, there is a complicated interaction between the club and the ball that depends on the friction between the two surfaces, that of the ball and that of the clubface. It also depends on the elastic properties of the ball, on the moment of inertia of the ball, and on the clubhead speed.

One more comment about "Spin" and "Friction". I borrowed this from 'Dave T's Club Design Notes'.

[nevercrosses]

Trackman measures Ball Flight with Doppler Radar. Only "Ball Flight". It uses "calculations" to report Spin Rate. That's why you need to tell Trackman the Club that you're using is a 6 Iron. What happens if you punch in "4 Iron" and used a "6 Iron"?

D Plane Theory doesn't use the concept of Hinge Action, Line of Compression, etc. It recognizes "Moment of Inertia" of the Ball as a "Listed" factor in "Effective Loft" but the connection to this "Advanced Level" of "Ball Control" is ignored because it isn't the primary purpose of "D Plane".

The first paragraph is incorrect. Trackman measures launch spin. It is not calculated. You don't need to type in what club you are using but you can so you can organize your data better.

Second paragraph is perfect. D Plane is not concerned with what is used to create impact alignments. It only explains how those alignments will affect the flight of the ball based on impact conditions.

[Daryl]

That's not what I've been told. Trackman people could have given me the wrong info or is it something new?

[airair]

Push with a draw for horizontal hinging push fade for angled hinging and if its possible to have verticle hinge a low push?
(I could be wrong here)

The Bear

I thought vertical hinging was for high shots...?