Geometry of the circle and how it applies to shot shaping .

[O.B.Left]

Great question.

In the mean time, before we try try to draw the club face lets nail a few more things in the basic drawing.

-add a stick man golfer guy, with the centre of the radius at his left shoulder and a head.

-have him address a ball back of low point and draw the Impact Plane Line .

-note the increased Angle of Attack.

This is still in a purely vertical plane as D noted above . Things start to get interesting when you lay the whole shebang on an inclined plane with the guys head and eyes (the golfers perspective per 2-C whatever) above the plane . There are unique perspectives to most of Homers definitions that must be recognized . IMO this is the key to being able to understand Homerian geometry speak , words. You must be able to mentally jump from one perspective to another . Golfers view , caddy , down the line , true path of the clubhead even. Vagueness on this breeds misunderstanding when communicating. It is so easy to get mixed up on this and when communicating geometry in words. Easy for folks to use the same words but with vastly different "perspectives", definitions. Once cracked , what at first seems like Homerian code language becomes profoundly useful. You could call up Yoda long distance and clearly , precisely discuss the mechanics necessary for the progression your own procedure for instance. As he did with Homer .... many times.


Guys this geometric perspective is also a language . This thread could get interesting if its possible for us speak the same language. Much of our discussions around here get bogged down in the mud of differences in definition. Not saying Im any better or worse just saying. Who knows maybe Mike O. will come on down with some stuff that shocks the world . Double D 's just itching to unleash a whirlwind of drawings I bet. Lets get the language straight and then roll with it.

Not saying the whole book will come together ... I still think Homer was nuts. As are we probably.

[HungryBear]

Great question.

In the mean time, before we try try to draw the club face lets nail a few more things in the basic drawing.

-add a stick man golfer guy, with the centre of the radius at his left shoulder and a head.

-have him address a ball back of low point and draw the Impact Plane Line .

-note the increased Angle of Attack.

I don't want to complicate this. BUT, will U need to add shoulders and place the center of rotation af the shoulders?

Then later an extension of the radious because of the uncocklin of the left wrist?

Am I getting way ahead of the basics U want to start at?
If so Ignor this for awhils.

hb

[O.B.Left]

I don't want to complicate this. BUT, will U need to add shoulders and place the center of rotation af the shoulders?

Then later an extension of the radious because of the uncocklin of the left wrist?

Am I getting way ahead of the basics U want to start at?
If so Ignor this for awhils.

hb

Dont need the shoulders I suppose but the eyes and their location above the plane are critical to where we're going. We can get to the centres , the levers etc later that'd be cool. Much can be gleaned before things get that complicated IMO.

The basic drawings are a model only . They're two dimensional , dont have any levers etc. Very un human like . No wrist cock , no #3 angle . Very flat . BUT IT REVEALS A GEOMETRY A WAY OF PERCEIVING THE CORRECT ATTITUDE THE CLUBHEAD SHOULD TAKE THROUGH THE BALL . Something that just doesnt seem to be apparent even to the best of golfers . The best merely operate in a manner inconsistent with they might perceive or write about. Weird but not uncommon or new by any means.

Yoda once relayed that Byron Nelson who was conceptually operating under a false logic of straight back and straight through (Im leaving face considerations out but he also had that wrong) intentionally left photos of his own action out of his book. His own swing was contradicting his logic.... Nothing against Lord Byron , I deeply admire the guy and his swing. My gosh his swing! My point is only that the geometry , the circular nature of the club head orbit , especially when its leaned onto an inclined plane is difficult to find . Its not difficult geometry to understand , but its not our first consideration when trying to figure out why that ball doesnt want to behave. We tend to look for a more linear explanation of things . "Square to Square" and the golf magazines of the 70s were a high water mark for this sort of thing. But the false logic of it , if you will, has been around for probably as long as the game has been played. Kids dont seem to be subject to it , they just do without much thought to things .

You cant go by what a lot of pro's say they are doing. (Especially Moe IMO, never trust a Canadian especially one from Ontario). Look at the pictures . This very thing cost Homer the better part of his first decade or so of research.

[O.B.Left]

Here's an old doodle of mine. Guys submit drawings you did on a napkin or toilet paper or whatever if you want. Take a photo of it on your phone and post it !!!

Rule #2 Unused toilet paper only! This is for all those Viking fans out there.

[O.B.Left]

not sure why i cant post pics anymore. Im doing something wrong fer sure.

[Daryl]

Here's an old doodle of mine. Guys submit drawings you did on a napkin or toilet paper or whatever if you want. Take a photo of it on your phone and post it !!!

Rule #2 Unused toilet paper only! This is for all those Viking fans out there.

Thats a very nice image

[BerntR]

Gentlemen,

It makes me sad to see these illustrations where the left shoulder is modeled as a swing center. What happened to the stationary head? Or do you advocate an arms only swing? - because that is the only way you can keep the head quiet and the left shoulder as the swing center. Or have you already forgotten about the "steady constant center" that OB introduced in his 3rd post in this thread and thus, allow the "center" to move around?

This illustration is so wrong in so many ways.

[O.B.Left]

Gentlemen,

It makes me sad to see these illustrations where the left shoulder is modeled as a swing center. What happened to the stationary head? Or do you advocate an arms only swing? - because that is the only way you can keep the head quiet and the left shoulder as the swing center. Or have you already forgotten about the "steady constant center" that OB introduced in his 3rd post in this thread and thus, allow the "center" to move around?

This illustration is so wrong in so many ways.

Ok , lets remove all but the head ..... we need to see the eyes as being above the inclined plane (from DTL) to understand the inherent illusions , what the correct path of the club should look like to the golfer. Thats all we need at present, to nail club path. What it looks like. So you can use the visual as a guide. Nail the actual path , then face and you can talk about ball reaction , shop shaping, divergence.

We can draw / model (moving) centres , levers etc if you want. Or try to anyways . Ive got some doodles I could share. Maybe others do to. The effects of delayed release of #2 on the Angle of Attack etc etc. What centres are being moved about at what point in the swing etc etc etc.

BTW I never intended the drawing to suggest that the left shoulder is the "swing centre". In real life. Most often it isnt ! It can be as you allude to, but isnt for full swings. For full shots the left shoulder is the center of the Arm Swing the head or more correctly a spot between the shoulders is the centre of the Pivot . They are both in play , their sequencing or non is a topic for discussion IMO. The Primary Lever is the Radius of the swing ... assuming your not Right Arm swinging.

I personally use a two bent arms, stiff wristed chipping method (Runyan , Seve style) that IMO is centred around the spot between the shoulders. Its a pure pivot stroke . One Accumulator. There's video of Seve online talking about the progression from chipping to pitching ...... "now we go to the straight left arm". To my mind that means he's introduced the left shoulder as centre of his straight left arm's motion. Nice way to work things. That guy dug it out of the sand. Also there are more centers than just the pivot and arm .... mulitple levers , multiple centres.

The 2D model is not intended to address the issues presented by the multiple levers of the human body. It merely shows the geometry of a circle . All models are somewhat flawed agreed . The machine of 1-L is subject to same. Centres can and do move in real life. With implications to low point , divot etc. etc etc.