Lag, lag, and more lag.....

[JohnThomas1]

I'd love to get a bit more lowdown on lag. I have a lot of fog via the TGM applications still.


The general golf world considers lag the angle between the shaft and the left arm and how long it is maintained before impact. Does this fit in with TGM?

Many consider the benefit of good lag to be the catapulting acceleration of the clubhead thru impact, is this correct? Or is the bigger benefit as much to do with a better line of compression due to the forward leaning shaft, or both?

Many pro's double cock and create a very substantial angle, TGM'S recommended flying wedge work avoids the right wrist cock and would likely have less angle. It is quality of lag over quantity?

I have been reading Ted's descriptions of his hitting stroke with great interest. He seemingly goes from impact fix to the top via the magic of the right forearm with no extra bend in the right wrist. Am i wrong in thinking this would mean no extra angle would be created and his angles would fall well short of say 90 degree's? If so this would seem like quality over quantity for sure. It would also mean power comes from the straightening right elbow and proper impact line of compression as opposed to catapult speed. Apologies for the fogged up post, but obviously lag was extremely important to Homer to say the least and a lag 101 would be most appreciated by me.

Regards

John

[6bmike]

yes, quality over quantity. The wrist cock is slight so Lag must be much more then just that. That would be a form of accumulator lag.

Lag means to follow.

The Clubhead follows the hands - that is clubhead lag.
The hands follow the body- that is pivot lag.

You load lag to the top and unload or release it in the downward stroke.

I love this: 6-C-0 "...at every point in the stroke from feet to clubhead. Every Lagging Componet places a Drag on its preceding Component...." =D>

Leadbetter doesn't teach this good stuff.

When instructors say that Sergio has great Lag, they know only a small part of it. It is more then wrist cock angle.

[8cork]

I too find this to be an interesting topic. I found alot of information from Chucks site. He has an instructional article called The Secret of Golf which is very informative. I would love to hear more from Yoda and Ted.

[MizunoJoe]

6bmike wrote, "The wrist cock is slight so Lag must be much more then just that. That would be a form of accumulator lag."

All types of Lag are important. But it's a fact that #2 Accumulator Lag is THE major contributor to clubhead speed in a world class Swing.

[lagster]

I'd love to get a bit more lowdown on lag. I have a lot of fog via the TGM applications still.


The general golf world considers lag the angle between the shaft and the left arm and how long it is maintained before impact. Does this fit in with TGM?

Many consider the benefit of good lag to be the catapulting acceleration of the clubhead thru impact, is this correct? Or is the bigger benefit as much to do with a better line of compression due to the forward leaning shaft, or both?

Many pro's double cock and create a very substantial angle, TGM'S recommended flying wedge work avoids the right wrist cock and would likely have less angle. It is quality of lag over quantity?

I have been reading Ted's descriptions of his hitting stroke with great interest. He seemingly goes from impact fix to the top via the magic of the right forearm with no extra bend in the right wrist. Am i wrong in thinking this would mean no extra angle would be created and his angles would fall well short of say 90 degree's? If so this would seem like quality over quantity for sure. It would also mean power comes from the straightening right elbow and proper impact line of compression as opposed to catapult speed. Apologies for the fogged up post, but obviously lag was extremely important to Homer to say the least and a lag 101 would be most appreciated by me.

Regards

John

CLUBHEAD LAG... THE STRESS ON THE CLUBSHAFT IS MAINTAINED INTO SEPARATION OF THE BALL FROM THE CLUBHEAD, OR EVEN SUSTAINED BEYOND SEPARATION. This is usually sensed or felt by the player through the FIRST JOINT OF THE RIGHT INDEX FINGER(#3 Pressure Point).
I believe this is the most important Type of LAG.

#2 ACCUMULATOR LAG... RETAINING THE LEFT WRIST COCK ANGLE well into the Release stage of the Stroke(8-9). This can be sen in many tour players.

Some of the tour players are True Centrifugal Force Swingers. They may employ Double Wrist Cocks per 10-18-B. This may give them even more #2 Accumulator angle. This can actually be an advantage for this type of Swinger, because the "reverse rotation during Release-- return to Flat and Vertical Left Wrist-- inhibits Clubhead Throwaway."

PIVOT LAG... THIS TYPE INVOLVES THE PROPER SEQUENCING OF THE PIVOT COMPONENTS. "Pivot Lag is Body Power for Swingers(2-M-4), launching pad for Hitters(2-M-3), and for both, operates like a "gear train" to extend the Swing Radius of the Primary Lever to any point from the Shoulder Turn on down to the Feet(Zone#1)."

[mgjordan]

I'd love to get a bit more lowdown on lag. I have a lot of fog via the TGM applications still.


The general golf world considers lag the angle between the shaft and the left arm and how long it is maintained before impact. Does this fit in with TGM?

Many consider the benefit of good lag to be the catapulting acceleration of the clubhead thru impact, is this correct? Or is the bigger benefit as much to do with a better line of compression due to the forward leaning shaft, or both?

Many pro's double cock and create a very substantial angle, TGM'S recommended flying wedge work avoids the right wrist cock and would likely have less angle. It is quality of lag over quantity?

I have been reading Ted's descriptions of his hitting stroke with great interest. He seemingly goes from impact fix to the top via the magic of the right forearm with no extra bend in the right wrist. Am i wrong in thinking this would mean no extra angle would be created and his angles would fall well short of say 90 degree's? If so this would seem like quality over quantity for sure. It would also mean power comes from the straightening right elbow and proper impact line of compression as opposed to catapult speed. Apologies for the fogged up post, but obviously lag was extremely important to Homer to say the least and a lag 101 would be most appreciated by me.

Regards

John

ClubHEAD lag is the clubhead traling the shaft (a bending of the club)

[Matt]

There is also Accumulator Lag - such as the left wristcock being maintained. As well as Pivot Lag.

[EdZ]

CLUBHEAD LAG... THE STRESS ON THE CLUBSHAFT IS MAINTAINED INTO SEPARATION OF THE BALL FROM THE CLUBHEAD, OR EVEN SUSTAINED BEYOND SEPARATION. Tis is usually sensed or felt by the player through the FIRST JOINT OF THE RIGHT INDEX FINGER(#3 Pressure Point).
I believe this is the most important Type of LAG.

#2 ACCUMULATOR LAG... RETAINING THE LEFT WRIST COCK ANGLE well into the Release stage of the Stroke(8-9). This can be sen in many tour players.

Some of the tour players are True Centrifugal Force Swingers. They may employ Double Wrist Cocks per 10-18-B. This may give them even more #2 Accumulator angle. This can actually be an advantage for this type of Swinger, because the "reverse rotation during Release-- retiurn to Flat and Vertical Left Wrist-- inhibits Clubhead Throwaway."

PIVOT LAG... THIS TYPE INVOLVES THE PROPER SEQUENCING OF THE PIVOT COMPONENTS. "Pivot Lag is Body Power for Swingers(2-M-4), launching pad for Hitters(2-M-3), and for both, operates like a "gear train" to extend the Swing Radius of the Primary Lever to any point from the Shoulder Turn on down to the Feet(Zone#1)."

It is MAINTAINING LAG PRESSURE that is the key. You can appear to maintain clubhead lag, and pivot lag and still give up lag pressure.

Lag pressure IS the 'heavy' feeling.

Lag pressure IS leverage.

Lag pressure IS "supporting the swinging on plane force"

This is why PP#3 is so important, it is the key to knowing that you have lag pressure. To feeling the 'loaded' club at transition, and the 'drag' feel of proper downward, hands leading impact.

Lag pressure is the key to compression.

You will know when you have it, you will 'hear' your shots sizzle, and impact will sound like a gun being fired.

[JohnThomas1]

Thanks again guys. Some GREAT reading there. It's good to see lag discussed, homer placed huge importance on it of course. All i need now is for Yoda's apprentice to comment

John

[jim_0068]

One thing i want to note is that lag pressure that you FEEL can be felt different by how/where you apply that PP#3 and by heavy/light swingweights as well.

Just figured i'd let you know that cuz i put my pp#3 a little bit more down the shaft and feel it in a different point on the index finger and will feel a much heavier lag with bigger swingweights than lighter ones.