Swinging and LAG howto?

[yodeli]

Hi, after studying a lot in this great site, here comes my first post!
I am quite new to TGM, so forgive me (and feel free to correct me) if I mess up with some TGM principles.

Here are recent pictures and videos of my swing.
I'm amazed by the differences:

Usual SWING:


LAG SWING:


You can download the videos here:
http://digitalmarket.free.fr/6I-YodeliSwing.mov
http://digitalmarket.free.fr/6I-YodeliLAG.mov

In the first sequence I (try to?) SWING: Spin the Flywheel and go down and out.
This used to be my standard Swing: The ball goes quite far and I can shoot 82 on a regular basis with this.

But you can see an ugly throwaway of the club. I also think it leads to this big sway to stay in balance with the club being thrown behind me before impact (I hate the position of my arms at impact!).
But strangely enough, it seems to me that I can still maintain a flat left wrist during the follow-through by holding the club (is it Steering?) with the right forearm bent on the follow-through, wich I know is not good but don't know how to avoid.


Now, in the second sequence I felt LAG for the first time by doing what I think may be "accumulator LAG" (as per Yoda).

To create this LAG, I did pretty much the same thing that ED mentionned in this post: http://www.lynnblakegolf.com/forum/s...ead.php?t=3113

I felt quite loose in the wrists during the takeaway (is this Drag Loading?). Then, when my hands where at shoulder height I abruptly interrupted the backswing by lowering my hands to the ground.

It felt like I did a 1/3 backswing with a Hitting Procedure (Am I right? My clubface on the follow-through suggests a SWING (Horizontal hinge action))?.

I felt compression on the ball which is what I wanted.
However I found it hard to control the direction and distance of the ball: I hit it straight left 1/4 of the time (I think this has something to do with the right arm not extending after impact) with distance variations which are improper for use on the course!

Anyway I would love to stick to this feeling because I sense there is something new and also the whole Swing look better on video (Except the follow-through where I still can’t go fully extended).

So I tried to incorporate this LAG feeling into my Swinging procedure…


In fact, the first SWING sequence was taken AFTER the LAG sequence and as you can see, despite my efforts, I'm unable to find this LAG when I do my SWINGING procedure (spinning the flywheel, THROW the club down and out): For example, I feel like there is no pressure at all in PP3 during the Downswing.

Should I stick to what I did when I tried the LAG?
What can I do to reproduce LAG when SWINGING (the THROW of the club makes me feel nothing on PP3)?
What can I do to fully extend my right arm after impact while doing the LAG?

Thank you for your comments and again, greetings to Yoda, the content of this site is amazing!

[Yoda]

Hi, after studying a lot in this great site, here comes my first post!
I am quite new to TGM, so forgive me (and feel free to correct me) if I mess up with some TGM principles.

Here are recent pictures and videos of my swing.
I'm amazed by the differences:

Thank you for your comments and again, greetings to Yoda, the content of this site is amazing!

That was quite a first post, yodeli. Very impressive!

There's lot's to digest here, but there definitely is a remarkable difference between these two Strokes. Personally, I like the one with Lag!

I'll come back when I've got a bit more time.

[yodeli]

That was quite a first post, yodeli. Very impressive!

There's lot's to digest here, but there definitely is a remarkable difference between these two Strokes. Personally, I like the one with Lag!

I'll come back when I've got a bit more time.

Thank you Yoda, and ok, this first poll was a bit verbose!
But there is much to say and I am very excited about this LAG feeling because I sense this is a major key for me and many serious G.O.L.F.ers!

So I decided to go on, throw my old swing forever and build a new one around this LAG feeling.
I’ll keep you informed on my progress and discoveries!

As I experienced LAG only a few days ago, I think it could be helpful for someone if I explain how I get there!

1. I started to read a lot of posts regarding LAG in this forum to gather general information .
2. I learned to “drag the wet mop” by watching the following videos:
   -[click on] Drag Your Wet Mop - easy to reproduce what I saw and the best one to understand the proper stroke mechanisms -
   - [click on]The Vikie Lake series: Because it covers many of the basics!
3. I went to the short range practice zone and did a lot of Basic Motion (20 meters to the pin) to help me feeling the hands past the ball with FLWrist and BRWrist.
   LAG whas easy to do and to feel by simply getting my wrists loose on the backswing and then focusing on getting my hands past the ball before impact (I think it is a DRAG loading procedure?).
4. Then I increased the distance to the practice green and went to 40 meters. As a result I started to practice Acquired Motion (See also the John Riegger series on this)
5. Finally I went to 80 meters still with Acquired Motion (no Swivel) and focusing on doing the same thing with my hands I did in Basic Motion. I was still able to feel the LAG and clubshaft bend.
   The easiest way to do it was to start the downstroke by interrupting my backswing while having "loose wrists".
   The tricky thing here is to avoid being too quick. You must stay cool and laaaazy on the downstroke to allow for the LAG to load (feeling the clubhead heaaaaavy).
6. Now I work on the Total Motion by adding the Swivel (currently practicing that one).

What “early releasers” must understand is that it took me only 4 visits at the range to learn and recognize the feelings.
I was trying to get rid of my clubhead throwaway for 2 years and I understand now that I could have kept it all my life without those little trainings at the range!!!

This said, I am still very curious to understand why the THROW of the SWING make me feel no pressure on PP3 as opposed to a HIT where I can feel something…

(Still very verbose uh?!)

[comdpa]

...This said, I am still very curious to understand why the THROW of the SWING make me feel no pressure on PP3 as opposed to a HIT where I can feel something…

(Still very verbose uh?!)

Per 10-11-03, "Remember, with Swinging, Pressure Point #3 must have a Feel of being rotated a quarter turn at The Top with Standard Wrist Action (10-18-A)....

That is - if left in "Top-of-the Clubshaft" position it becomes a Weak Single Action Grip (10-2-A) and the interchangeable equivalent to 10-2-C for Swingers."

Hope that answers your query.

Here's a picture of me l-a-g-g-i-n-g...

[golfer24]

In the new swing sequence you do not have a picture right at impact. How can you judge it to be better without this most important frame. It's like most swing sequences in golf magazines, they rarely show impact due mostly to slow shutter speeds cameras.

[golfbulldog]

"One more thought about the "Lag Swing":
It feels a bit "wristy" which seems far away to the TGM basics!
Is it a normal feeling or should I have frozen wrists?"

Yodeli - your feeling of wristy-ness are due to the wrists acting as free hinges - allowing you to experience the inertial forces during transition. If you have previously been using forearm muscles to cast from the top then your wrists will have felt "strong" but wrong!

Maybe what you are feeling is some increased wrist cock on transition to downswing - ie. float loading - but this is perfect way of learning lag sensation in pp3.

I think that when you focus on your right index finger sensation at transition - when you feel most wristy - you will notice that lag sensation is felt - as Comdpa says - on top of the shaft And nearer the Metacarpophalangeal joint of your index finger.

Yodas / 6b 's latest video about lag goes into this in perfect detail- great close up of yoda's pp3 at "end" versus "top". So easy to understand - AND it clears up 7-3 loading stuff too - ie. where should the right forearm be at top and end.

Get your pivot to do whatever it needs to do to hold that sensation as long into downswing and you will look like Comdpa, Sergio, Hogan, Yoda...

[yodeli]

In the new swing sequence you do not have a picture right at impact. How can you judge it to be better without this most important frame. It's like most swing sequences in golf magazines, they rarely show impact due mostly to slow shutter speeds cameras.

You are right, the frame is missing. However I am pretty sure it looks better at impact.
Here's why:

If you compare frame 9 of the "Classic Swing" and frame 8 of the "Lag Swing" you can see the difference in the position of the hands: they both are in front of my right leg...
But, and to me it's a big difference, while in the "Classic Swing" the clubhead is striking the ball and the right wrist is straight (argh!), at this same moment in the "Lag Swing" the clubhead is still lagging behind with right wrist bent.

It means that my hands will be (it's obligatory) PAST THE BALL when the clubhead will strike the ball.

And the stroke feels very different also.

Anyway, I will beg for a better camera for Christmas !

[yodeli]

Per 10-11-03, "Remember, with Swinging, Pressure Point #3 must have a Feel of being rotated a quarter turn at The Top with Standard Wrist Action (10-18-A)....

That is - if left in "Top-of-the Clubshaft" position it becomes a Weak Single Action Grip (10-2-A) and the interchangeable equivalent to 10-2-C for Swingers."

Hope that answers your query.

Here's a picture of me l-a-g-g-i-n-g...

Yes, I understand the concept; I must now learn to translate this into feelings. Also, seeing Yoda's video (PressurePoint3-WhereAreYou) on the same subject was very helpful !

You have a hell of a lag'o death Comdpa!!!
Very impressive!
Be careful not to rip-off your right ear !

Seriously, I find the position of your right elbow to your side quite interesting because from there it clearly shows that you only need to uncock the right forearm to be in perfect impact conditions.

Interestingly enough, in my old swing my right elbow was always away from my left side (and it was impossible to force it in the right slot).
Now, if you compare to the Lag Swing, IT'S MAGICALLY TUCKED TO MY SIDE!!!

I discovered that by doing the Lag procedure I covered in a previous post it MAGICALLY solved a few flaws I never managed to get rid off:
- Right elbow is tucked to my side
- No more overswinging
- Left arm straight at all times
- Better weight transfer
- Wide takeaway and less inside
And all this without thinking of doing it!

Cool !

To be perfectly sure, Comdpa, do you confirm that you did nothing special to get your right elbow in this position?
According to you is it the automagic result of your lagging motion?

Greetings, Lag Master !

[comdpa]

...

To be perfectly sure, Comdpa, do you confirm that you did nothing special to get your right elbow in this position?
According to you is it the automagic result of your lagging motion?

Greetings, Lag Master !

If you have the book, reference 6-B-2/3/4 C.

[6bmike]

Just a few quick points: in your usual swing you seem to ‘throw’ the clubhead early from the top- sort of a sweep release- nothing wrong with an early throw or sweep release BUT frame 9 is ugly (your word- ). Practice Impact Fix so the right wrist is bent at impact and the left wrist is flat. This is independent of Lag. Check ball location

In your Lag swing- frame 8 your head turns off the ball ala Sorenstam. Try to concentrate on a rear aft dimple on the ball with your eyes. Now if you threw a line from your eyes to the ball- your ‘Line of Sight’- allow your hands to pass through this LoS to an Aiming Point. Your pivot and hands will release the clubhead (accumulator Lag). Find a ball location.

You like the ‘Low and Wide’ Left shoulder turn take-away. A Right Forearm Takeway will help. The folding of the right arm at the elbow cocks the left wrist either as a muscular action for Hitters or as a centrifugal force motion for swingers. For Swingers this will feel like Drag Loading because this motion ‘slams/sets/loads’ the shaft into pp3 at the top of the stroke. A Hitters action of folding sets pp3 early.