24 years of golf but only 24 hours of G.O.L.F. !!

[teach]

Thank you for your replies. I watched the video clips that were mentioned, as well as the one on delivery path and flying wedges. I also read every single post in the archives on flying wedges. To me, there still seems to be a contradiction between the right forearm being on plane at address and having a right forearm flying wedge, but I'm going to let this incubate for a while. I think that I'm missing some crucial point or definition.

teach

[ChrisNZ]

Thank you for your replies. I watched the video clips that were mentioned, as well as the one on delivery path and flying wedges. I also read every single post in the archives on flying wedges. To me, there still seems to be a contradiction between the right forearm being on plane at address and having a right forearm flying wedge, but I'm going to let this incubate for a while. I think that I'm missing some crucial point or definition.

teach

Teach,

To try and help, and some of this may be obvious to you, but if so just ignore.

First, onplane means from the down the line view not the face on view. Again, this may be obvious, but from your earlier post it looked like possibly you might have been meaning onplane/inline, as if this meant from looking face on at the player.

Secondly, for someone starting at adjusted address (that is the classic, mid body hands address position, usually with a bent left wrist and relatively flat right wrist), the flying wedges are not set up - they are set during the swing when the right wrist bends (to the point it will be bent at at impact).

Thirdly, to get the right forearm on plane at address, you need pretty high hands. If from down the line the shaft and your right forearm are not onplane at address (in a straight line) - which is what you see in most players, tour players incuded), just try raising your hands (this is no substitute for impact fix though - see the archives on impact fix!). Also, while much instruction suggests a finger grip for the right hand, TGM prescribes much more of a palm grip. There are posts on this in the forum. The grip lies in the cup of your right hand and this makes it much easier to get the right forearm on plane. And the level condition which is prescribed for the right wrist throughout the swing is not the natural condition of your hand at rest (or its not for me anyway) - it is more uncocked - so if you held your hand up vertically with your pinky finger closest to the ground, all your fingers would point down somewhat in relation to your right forearm. Looking at your palm there would be a straight line from your wrist to the first knuckle of your thumb, extending up your arm.

Hope this helps and doesn't confuse you more! Again, sorry if some of this was obvious.

Chris

[tongzilla]

The Right Forearm will never be perfectly On Plane and in-line with the Clubshaft (as it should be at Impact) when using Standard Address (10-9-A). This is because the Right Shoulder is almost always off plane (above plane) at Address, but On Plane at Impact (via Axis Tilt at Start Down).

[golfbulldog]

Thanks to everyone for their comments and advice

Much of the "forearm obsession" may stem from the emphasis that the book and websites places on this relative to other teaching methods. For me, there are not many other teachers / books which comment on the right forearm position as much as TGM. So for somebone brand new to TGM this is an exciting area of thought - even a glimpse of some "secret" to a desperate hacker , whilst for experienced TGM readers it is merely one piece of the familiar jigsaw.

Remember that the patterns set out in 12-1-0 amd 12-2-0 both describe turned shoulder plane and zero axis shift - i presume these require forearm aligment in line with turned shoulder at impact and at address in order to be classified as "zero shift". These create a swing which is unfamiliar to non TGM people, so when i first read this section i was naturally intrigued but suspicious. If this is mechanically simple why is it not used more often ? I still have not read any answer which explains this other than "TGM does not require ...only advise" type reply.

I understand that TGM is not just about teaching one swing method but allowing mutually compatible components to be mixed BUT if Homer went to the trouble of setting out these examples and saying "avoid 'customising' it with other variations until it approaches the 'expert' stage" then he must have considered them important. There are either alot of 'experts' or it is an uncomfortable way to swing for a human being because it is rarely seen on the course!

These are not 'absolute' critisisms of the book just a frustrated learner trying to understand. My mind is still open but has a sceptical, questioning nature.

PS CHris NZ i think you make very valid points - nice and simple to understand - thanks.

[teach]

ChrisNZ,

Thank you very much! I needed someone to "state the obvious" because what you pointed out had not been obvious to me! I *was* thinking in terms of looking down at the shaft from my view at address.

The biggest problem that I have with the book and the way that TGMers refer to it is with "planes" in general. There are many different planes and I often see sentences such as, "Turn your hands to the plane, bring the shaft and clubhead to the plane, go to follow through, use on plane hinge action, then swivel to the plane." On plane to WHAT?! I realize that Homer was an engineer, but what would be so terrible about using the terms, "target line" and "club path?"

Oh well. I needed to vent. Golfbulldog, I apologize for somewhat threadjacking your original post. Thanks again, ChrisNZ and everyone else who responded.

teach

[Yoda]

First, onplane means from the down the line view not the face on view...

Secondly, for someone starting at adjusted address (that is the classic, mid body hands address position, usually with a bent left wrist and relatively flat right wrist), the flying wedges are not set up - they are set during the swing when the right wrist bends (to the point it will be bent at at impact)...

Thirdly, to get the right forearm on plane at address, you need pretty high hands...

Chris,

Your reply post to Teach above containing the quoted excertps was sensational. Thanks!

[TGMfan]

ChrisNZ,

The biggest problem that I have with the book and the way that TGMers refer to it is with "planes" in general. There are many different planes and I often see sentences such as, "Turn your hands to the plane, bring the shaft and clubhead to the plane, go to follow through, use on plane hinge action, then swivel to the plane." On plane to WHAT?! I realize that Homer was an engineer, but what would be so terrible about using the terms, "target line" and "club path?"

teach

Teach,

"Planes" may be easier to deal with if you remember that they're strictly about the orientation of the clubSHAFT - which is either On Plane (i.e. lowest end pointing at the Plane Line) or not. Whether you're trying to turn your hands to the Plane, or swivel back to the Plane, or whatever, it's always about doing so while maintaining that orientation of the clubshaft.

I try to recite my mantra every day: Plane is clubSHAFT control, Lag is clubHEAD control, and Flat Left Wrist is clubFACE control.

[teach]

Thanks, TGMfan. That was helpful.

teach

[Yoda]

The biggest problem that I have with the book and the way that TGMers refer to it is with "planes" in general. There are many different planes and I often see sentences such as, "Turn your hands to the plane, bring the shaft and clubhead to the plane, go to follow through, use on plane hinge action, then swivel to the plane." On plane to WHAT?! I realize that Homer was an engineer, but what would be so terrible about using the terms, "target line" and "club path?"

Teach,

To communicate in English requires that you know the English language.

To communicate in Spanish requires that you know the Spanish language.

To communicate in G.O.L.F. requires that you know the G.O.L.F. language.

So much that is not defined in conventional golf instruction is defined in The Golfing Machine®. To speak in 'Pennsylvania Dutch' just doesn't get it.

Learn the G.O.L.F. language.

And break the bonds that have so long constrained your Game.

[12 piece bucket]

ChrisNZ,

Thank you very much! I needed someone to "state the obvious" because what you pointed out had not been obvious to me! I *was* thinking in terms of looking down at the shaft from my view at address.

The biggest problem that I have with the book and the way that TGMers refer to it is with "planes" in general. There are many different planes and I often see sentences such as, "Turn your hands to the plane, bring the shaft and clubhead to the plane, go to follow through, use on plane hinge action, then swivel to the plane." On plane to WHAT?! I realize that Homer was an engineer, but what would be so terrible about using the terms, "target line" and "club path?"

Oh well. I needed to vent. Golfbulldog, I apologize for somewhat threadjacking your original post. Thanks again, ChrisNZ and everyone else who responded.

teach

Teach,

We can help you clear this Plane thing up . . . The word PLANE shows up in the book and on the forums in MANY contexts. So it is important that you understand the context in which PLANE is being used. You got your "On-Plane", "Plane Line", "Plane Angle", "Bent Plane Line", "Plane Shifts", "In the Plane of's", "Plain Shrimp", "Shrimp Salad", "Shrimp Scampi", "Fried Shrimp", "Boiled Shrimp", "Broiled Shrimp", "Shrimp Burga" etc. etc.

Let's see if ole Mr. K can help you out . . .

PLANE GEOMETRY
We of the Koolaid Stained Shirt live GEOMETRY. The beautiful science of relationships (we ain't talkin' the Dr. Phil kind). It is ALIGNMENTS. It is the FOUNDATION. Plane is first mentioned on Page 2.

1-C GEOMETRY It’s not the theorems but merely the shapes and lines of Plane Geometry – familiar to all – that are used herein. Most useful are lines and relationships that are flat, parallel, horizontal, vertical, straight, On Plane or centered because their precision can be checked visually – there is no question of degree in such alignments.

INCLINED PLANE
From these relationships and alignments we construct our Machine. And like Mr. K said not no wooden dug out rinky dink stump canoe. BUT a BATTLESHIP constructed by many pieces. Our Machine has 3 functions that it MUST control. Say 'em with me now clubFACE!!! clubSHAFT!!! and clubHEAD!!! I can't hear you!!! The ole Hinge Action of an Angular Motion on an INCLINED PLANE.

and guess what . . . per 1-L the Machine Concept A. The Inclined Plane is Clubshaft Control – See 2-F and 4-0 You must control your SHAFT (uh huh). Per 1-L, The Clubshaft lies full length on a flat tilted plane. Your clubshaft basically lays on a ROOF. Some Roofs is steep. Some Roofs ain't. AND your Roof can move . . . But it's GUTTER can't (or shouldn't anyway). The 3rd Imperative is A STRAIGHT PLANE LINE.

STRAIGHT PLANE LINE
Your Roof's Gutter is your Plane Line. And your Plane Line AIN'T always your target line (or Line of Flight). So how do you check if you are on Plane? 1-L says The Clubshaft always points at the Plane Line except when they are parallel to each other. Easy enough. Point the head end or the butt end at a straight line unless the club is parallel to the line . . . the Plane Line not the target line. Think of Lee Trevino and Bruce Leaky.

PLANE OF MOTION
Because you stand to the SIDE of the ball and because of the design of your club. You stand with your head stickin' out of the ROOF. Depending on the steepness of your ROOF (Plane Angle), it just may be your noggin stickin' out. OR if it's flatter, you may be stickin' out from your big ass up. The implication of you stickin' out of this ROOF is that the club moves BACK, UP and IN. From "in front of you" to "behind you." Per 2-C-0, a Three Dimensional Downstroke – that is DOWNward (Attack Angle) AND OUTward (Plane Angle) AND FORward (Approach Angle) You are DOWN, OUT and FORWARD BECAUSE you swing on an Inclined Plane (ROOF).

2-F PLANE OF MOTION All the action of the Golf Club takes place on a flat, inflexible, Inclined Plane which extends well beyond the circumference of the stroke – in every direction. The full length of the Clubshaft remains unwaveringly on the face of this Inclined Plane – Waggle to Follow-through. Every other Component of the Stroke must be adjusted to comply with that requirement
Who's your DADDY? THE PLANE IS YOUR DADDY!!!

IN THE PLANE OF . . .
He said, "EVERY OTHER COMPONENT MUST BE ADJUSTED TO COMPLY." This is where it gets fun. Your BODY (hands, shoulders, the RIGHT FOREARM) must COMPLY to the Inclined Plane. So also in 2-F it follows . . .

That includes the Right Forearm. See 5-0. The player must hold the Forearm in the Feel of the same plane per 7-3, dynamically in-line. Picture the javelin thrower with the right elbow and On Plane right forearm leading the hand toward the target (Delivery Line) all during Delivery. See 6-B-1. The Right Forearm of every Hacker comes into Impact too high – pointing beyond the Delivery Line during Downstroke (2-J-3, 7-3). Study 2-G and Components 5, 6, and 7.

Picture the JAVELIN THROWER. The javelin is IN THE SAME PLANE AS THE THROWER'S RIGHT FOREARM. This assembly, the Right Forearm (not the WHOLE right arm but the Right FOREARM) and the javelin move in a VERTICAL PLANE. So now in your mind . . . just bend that ole Javelin Thrower over (uh huh) at the hips into a golf posture. This is how you want to move this Structure, this assembly, that is your Right FOREARM FOREARM FOREARM Flying Wedge through the ball.

3 BASIC PLANES AND HINGING
Now, forget about the Roof for a second. Let's talk swinging DOORS. What does a door swing on? Uh a HINGE right? Holla! So how many ways could you mount a door? 3!!!!!

1. You got your everyday come on in the house door . . . Hinge mounted vertical to the ground. BUT the DOOR moves in a HORIZONTAL PLANE.
2. You got your Trap DOOR . . . hinge mounted horizontal . . . but door moves on a VERTICAL PLANE
3. Then let's say you mount a door on roof. That's ANGLED PLANE OF MOTION.

3 Types of Doors 3 Types of BASIC PLANES (VERTICAL HORIZONTAL ANGLED) 3 Types of HINGE ACTION

PLANE ANGLES AND PLANE SHIFTS
Your ROOF can change pitch for the situation at hand or even SHIFT. Per 7-7:

Players often – consciously or subconsciously – employ more than one of the “natural” Planes. The Shoulder Planes are the more consciously employed – the Elbow Plane the more – almost totally – subconsciously used. Vaguely or incorrectly defined Planes and Variations must be eliminated. The list is restricted to those of fairly common usage – good and bad. Other than the Right Shoulder positions, only the Elbow reference point has any great general usefulness. The “Hand Angle” is emergency or special purpose application. Wrist Action and the selected Inclined Plane must be compatible – watch especially with “No Wristcock” Strokes.

During any Shift of Planes the Clubshaft is held On Plane with the Plane Line as though the Plane itself were moving to the new location. Other controlled procedures that achieve On Plane Impact may be more difficult but need not be deemed improper. Such as positioning the Clubshaft at The Top of the Plane Angle intended for Release.

10-7-0 GENERAL Plane Angle Variations are classified according to the shifts in Plane Angle of the Stroke path. A shift may be made (1) during the Backstroke (2) during the Downstroke, or (3) at the Top of the Stroke

Hope this helps make plain some of the PLANE stuff.

B