Lower body on downstroke

[Trig]

I've heard some say that the lower body has to move laterally towards the target during the down stroke. I've also heard this is wrong and that the lower body rotates so that your belt buckle is looking at the target. The latter representing a "firm left side". I've also seen a drill where a shaft is placed into the ground outside of your left leg. The idea being you should not be bumping into it during the down stroke.

Thoughts?

[comdpa]

All slides become turns.

I think the issue is the player's Delivery Line. The general principle is to move parallel to the Delivery Line in the Downstroke. If using a straight Delivery Line (Plane Line or Angle of Approach), then you would slide parallel to the Delivery Line before it becomes a turn. If using the Arc of Approach, you would turn and not slide.

When using the Arc of Approach, the CLUBHEAD travels in an arc, but it still points to the straight plane line per 1-L-6.

Also see 2-J-3 in this respect.

Per 7-12 "All motion - Pivot and Power Package - moves parallel to the selected Delivery Line. That is, prior to the Downstroke Turn, a Slide parallel with either the Angle of Approach or the plane line per 2-J-3."

Delivery Lines are needed to guide the clubhead and right forearm.

Per 5-0 "That - failure to clear the Right Hip (Roundhouse) can initiate almost every alignment disruption, including shanking..."

The point here is no matter what Delivery Line is chosen, there must always be a slide first - for hitters, a cross line motion to stay ahead of centrifugal force per 2-L-1; for swingers parallel to the plane line - else there will be a hip-elbow collision which then necessitates a roundhouse (7-13).

[bts]

I've heard some say that the lower body has to move laterally towards the target during the down stroke. I've also heard this is wrong and that the lower body rotates so that your belt buckle is looking at the target. The latter representing a "firm left side". I've also seen a drill where a shaft is placed into the ground outside of your left leg. The idea being you should not be bumping into it during the down stroke.

Thoughts?

When focus on PULLing the club or BENDing the shaft (by pushing) against the clubhead "LAG" with the HANDS (powerred by a spinning lagged-pivot), the lower body seems always leads with a bit "bump" first and then turn (and the left side feels pretty firm as well and is not gonna touch the stick).

What you Intend to do is "sustain the lag with the hands", yet what the body shows is the lower body's "bump and turn" first. So, it's seems that you "Do" the former "to Get" the latter-"hands-controlled-pivot", not the other way around-"pivot-controlled-hands".

When doing the former, I feel only "1----" all the way through impact. For the latter, however, I feel "1-2---", which has much more "timing" involved, aside from the "LAG break-down". I would like to take as much "timing" out of, yet keep as much "LAG" in, my swing as possible.

[armourall]

2-L-1[/b]; for swingers parallel to the plane line - else there will be a hip-elbow collision which then necessitates a roundhouse (7-13).

If a player uses an impact address (with right forearm on plane) and no slide on the backswing, will a hip slide on the downswing drop the right elbow below plane?

[comdpa]

If a player uses an impact address (with right forearm on plane) and no slide on the backswing, will a hip slide on the downswing drop the right elbow below plane?

Hi armourall,

Sounds like you are a hitter.

The purpose of a hip slide is not to drop the right elbow or raise it. I can change my plane angle without any hip slide. It is a Hand Action per 9-3 and not a Pivot Action.

The purpose of a hip slide is to shift the shoulder axis so that right elbow does not collide with the hips.

When there is no collision, an inside out impact will be the result.

When there is no attempt to prevent a collision, there will be no roundhousing of the shoulders and no running out of right arm.

[comdpa]

Interesting. How do reconcile this with a player who prefers to use a Standard Hip Turn (10-14-A) and the Arc of Approach Delivery Line?

rwh,

Arc of approach question. Refer to 2-J-3.

Draw a wheel on a piece of paper. Draw a line tangent to it, this is your plane line.

The rim is what the clubhead will cover, and the plane line is where the clubhead should be pointing to.

You will notice that impact point is the same for both the arc of approach and the true plane line.

As for your 10-14-A question, I am unable to reconcile your question.

What I am able to say though is that I let what is clear and easily understood in the book take precedence over what is obscure (to me).

I am not trying to cop out here - I am saying "I CANNOT answer it." Maybe someone more qualified (Yoda or Yodasluke) will be better placed to answer it.

What is clear to me as a user of the Standard Hip Turn (which is a free hip turn in both directions) is:

Per 7-12 "All motion - Pivot and Power Package - moves parallel to the selected Delivery Line. That is, prior to the Downstroke Turn, a Slide parallel with either the Angle of Approach or the plane line per 2-J-3."

[armourall]

Hi armourall,

Sounds like you are a hitter.

The purpose of a hip slide is not to drop the right elbow or raise it. I can change my plane angle without any hip slide. It is a Hand Action per 9-3 and not a Pivot Action.

The purpose of a hip slide is to shift the shoulder axis so that right elbow does not collide with the hips.

When there is no collision, an inside out impact will be the result.

When there is no attempt to prevent a collision, there will be no roundhousing of the shoulders and no running out of right arm.

It seems like I agree with everything you've said, but I don't know if it completely cleared things up for me. Let me ask this way: Yes, you can change planes without tilting the axis, but... can you tilt the axis without changing planes?

[12 piece bucket]

It seems like I agree with everything you've said, but I don't know if it completely cleared things up for me. Let me ask this way: Yes, you can change planes without tilting the axis, but... can you tilt the axis without changing planes?

Yes. If you don't tilt then odds are you WILL NOT achieve Zero Shift.

[comdpa]

Yes. If you don't tilt then odds are you WILL NOT achieve Zero Shift.

Took the words right out of my mouth...