My 10 Questions

[bts]

How are you gonna play (or teach) golf well without knowing the answers of "My 10 Questions":

1. Why do beginners hit slices?
2. Why are the images of peoples' swings different from what they imagine?
3. Why can't people take their games to the golf course?
4. Why do people miss a 3(or even shorter)-footer?
5. Why can't people swing like Tiger, despite they watch his swing over and over and know exactly what it's like?
6. Why do people slip back to their old swings after taking lessons?
7. Why can't people hit it longer with a harder swing?
8. Why do people hit it into the hazards they try to avoid, but not the target they anticipate?
9. Why can't people repeat their best drives?
10. Why do people's practicing swing differ from their real swing?

[12 piece bucket]

How are you gonna play (or teach) golf well without knowing the answers of "My 10 Questions":

1. Why do beginners hit slices?
2. Why are the images of peoples' swings different from what they imagine?
3. Why can't people take their games to the golf course?
4. Why do people miss a 3(or even shorter)-footer?
5. Why can't people swing like Tiger, despite they watch his swing over and over and know exactly what it's like?
6. Why do people slip back to their old swings after taking lessons?
7. Why can't people hit it longer with a harder swing?
8. Why do people hit it into the hazards they try to avoid, but not the target they anticipate?
9. Why can't people repeat their best drives?
10. Why do people's practicing swing differ from their real swing?

Great questions!!! I can't answer none of 'em . . . I'd love to hear yours though! Could be a break through for me. I think that it starts with concepts though.

Good start to what could be a GREAT thread. Let's roll.

[bray]

How are you gonna play (or teach) golf well without knowing the answers of "My 10 Questions":

1. Why do beginners hit slices?
2. Why are the images of peoples' swings different from what they imagine?
3. Why can't people take their games to the golf course?
4. Why do people miss a 3(or even shorter)-footer?
5. Why can't people swing like Tiger, despite they watch his swing over and over and know exactly what it's like?
6. Why do people slip back to their old swings after taking lessons?
7. Why can't people hit it longer with a harder swing?
8. Why do people hit it into the hazards they try to avoid, but not the target they anticipate?
9. Why can't people repeat their best drives?
10. Why do people's practicing swing differ from their real swing?

1. Because they are swinging to left field with an open clubface.
2. Feel is not real. What you feel like you are doing is not always what you're doing. That's why you need an instructor and/or video to help you see what's going on.
3.People work on their swings but they don't work on their swings under pressure and they don't practice staying in the present.
4. Everyone's going to miss some of these in the career but it boils down to concentration, commitment, and staying in the present.
5. They don't have the flexibility, strength, and dedication to try to swing like Tiger by practicing a lot!!!
6.People don't realize how long and hard you have to work on swing changes to make them stick. Just because it looked like you've fixed on video doesn't mean it will hold up when your on the first tee of your state open qualifier so you'll revert back. You have to be very stubborn and dedicated to get some changes to stick while other changes can be very easy.
7. They can if they hit it in the center of the clubface with a good swing path (inside out) and face angle. However the faster you go the harder this is to do.
8. Players learn to look through/beyond hazards not at them.
9. They can with practice and dedication, but they have to realize each day you wake up and your bodies a little different so you have to adjust a little the best player's in the world do this well.
10. Because there's no ball there. No hit urge.

At least that's my thoughts on the subject.......I'm not an expert (yet), I just taught 121 lessons last month.

Sorting Throught the Golf Nut's Catalog.

B-Ray

[mrodock]

How are you gonna play (or teach) golf well without knowing the answers of "My 10 Questions":

1. Why do beginners hit slices?
2. Why are the images of peoples' swings different from what they imagine?
3. Why can't people take their games to the golf course?
4. Why do people miss a 3(or even shorter)-footer?
5. Why can't people swing like Tiger, despite they watch his swing over and over and know exactly what it's like?
6. Why do people slip back to their old swings after taking lessons?
7. Why can't people hit it longer with a harder swing?
8. Why do people hit it into the hazards they try to avoid, but not the target they anticipate?
9. Why can't people repeat their best drives?
10. Why do people's practicing swing differ from their real swing?

1. Heaving the arms and shoulders at the ball feels like a powerful move to a beginner. The act of trying to hit the ball hard from the top of the backswing most often results in cutting across the ball and this swing path makes it more difficult to square up the face.

2. What people might imagine their swing to be is likely the consequence of seeing good players' swings that they admire and would like to copy. The player might get such a picture in their mind; however, they are still stuck with their motor program for the golf swing, or a slightly different version if the picture has had some effect. It takes reconditioning to affect one's motor program. Further, everyone has certain tendencies with a golf club and if someone wishes to change the plane of their swing for instance they might feel that they do not have any forearm rotation on the backswing. What they are really feeling is less forearm rotation than usual, maybe only slightly less. Slight changes can cause massively different feels at first because the motor program of a player's swing that has played for awhile is truly a part of that person, thus swing changes can be quite difficult.

3. Some people may be rather surprised that they really do not have much of a game to take to the course in the first place. If you hit balls with the goal of hitting it into the field you have not practiced golf--hitting to a specific target. If one is playing far below their potential there is great likelihood they are either too tight, too fearful, or lack confidence, or a combination of the aforementioned.

4. It can be psychological, not making a smooth stroke without nervous twitches or jerks. It also can be a bad putting stroke that is neither on-plane or with a consistent hinge action. My guess is bad mechanics usually lead to psychological problems and the cycle persists.

5. Truth is, they don't know EXACTLY what it is like. They might be able to recognize it without seeing Tiger's face but that does not mean that they know what it feels like. Further, without the same body structure, tissue length, strength, etc., one is incapable of making the exact same swing. Further, if a person does not work on things to directly recondition their motor program, (drills with a golf club) that motor program will, in large part, continue to run the golf swing. If the player reconditions a piece of Tiger's swing at a time, until that part is habit, and then moves onto the next piece in a period of several years it is possible they will have a swing that is reminiscent of the great Tiger Woods. Realistically, very few have this kind of discipline.

6. They don't spend the time to recondition the new movements and start tinkering and working on other things. A couple of bad shots is often all it takes for someone to start tinkering.

7. Swinging harder causes most players to reach their peak speed long before impact and thus lose any or all lag pressure.

8. Sometimes players are quite successful of avoiding a hazard. Instead of hitting it in the water left they hit it 75 yards to the right for instance. I believe many players do not set a target if there is trouble to avoid; realistically, their target is anywhere but the hazard. Further, is more attention is paid to the hazard than a target in the fairway for instance, the hazard becomes the target for the subconscious and the body makes the alterations necessary to get the ball to the target (provided the timing of the swing is correct). SPEND MORE TIME LOOKING AT THE TARGET. Glance at the hazard stare at the target.

9. Most players best drives are a consequence of all the compensations of their swings coming together nearly perfectly. No one can always compensate perfectly. The better the mechanics, the better the psychology, the more often one can replay their best drives or at least come close. Further, one's best drivers, particularly for a swinger, are the consequence of an effortless swing and it is common to try and control or MAKE a good drive happen instead of letting it happen.

10. Because there is a golf ball there and a consequence if the golf ball does not go to the target. Thus, nerves play a role. Further, one can have a well-planed golf swing away from a ball but it can be several inches from hitting a ball (if there was a ball there), thus, they will have a tendency to come over the top. Steering is another reason for differences.

Matt

[BerntR]

My 5 €:

1. Why do beginners hit slices?

Because they haven't learned how to release the club. The only effort that they can do to square the club is to apply an easy stroke. Other typical efforts are some version of steering and is counter productive.

"Over the top":




2. Why are the images of peoples' swings different from what they imagine?

Feel isn't real. I think someone has said that mechanics can't be learned by feel.

3. Why can't people take their games to the golf course?

Good question. Part of it is that the driving range game relies on short term muscle memory and repeating the same stroke over and over. Another part is that the computer has a very different approach to the real game than the driving range.

4. Why do people miss a 3(or even shorter)-footer?

Two causes:
a) aiming error. What appears to be a straight line to the hole from address isn't straight.
b) lack of club face control

5. Why can't people swing like Tiger, despite they watch his swing over and over and know exactly what it's like?

Seeing what he's doing - distinguishing cause and effect - is difficult even for the experts. And even though people did know exactly what he was doing it would be hard to replicate. Extremely well educated hands probably has a lot to do with the Tiger magic. I suspect he would be the world no# 1 even with my swing

6. Why do people slip back to their old swings after taking lessons?

I can think of two things:

1) The golf stroke has a cognitive basis -underlying action theories - as every other human effort. We all have our theories of how a good stroke is executed. But people who struggle with their stroke has blind spots and/or conunterproductive swing concepts. When people try to fix their mechanical pattern their underlying understanding of the golf stroke often isn't fixed. The golf stroke is a fragile assembly that needs qualified maintainance regularly. Old faults and fixes will be deployed if the old concepts of causes and actions still rules.

2) When things work OK, most of the personal swing theory is "tacit" to the golfer. It works even though only small fragments are in the concious. We run on a semo-auto pilot. After a swing change there will be conflicting theories inside the golfer. Old habits tends to creep into the semi-auto pilot without the golfer being aware.

7. Why can't people hit it longer with a harder swing?

They can if they have educated hands, body and mind. But the strongest release comes from an automatic trigger that many doesn't know of, and forcing the release will be counterproductive.

8. Why do people hit it into the hazards they try to avoid, but not the target they anticipate?

Because they have an inadequate action theory about how to strike the golf ball, ref 1 and 6.

9. Why can't people repeat their best drives?

Generally the same as above. But more specifically, I think many golfers have issues with the stance, alignment and takeaway that creates inconsistencies.

10. Why do people's practicing swing differ from their real swing?

Because a "beautiful" practice swing can hide important errors in the clubhead / clubface control department. When there's a ball on the line, the hands know that compensation has to be undertaken in the downswing to strike the ball as planned.

[dss]

My 2 cents to answer #10...I have come to this conclusion after giving thousands of lessons over the years, and seeing hundreds of thousands of swings...the reason the practice swing is always better than when a ball is there, is because WITHOUT A BALL AND TARGET, THE PLAYER MAKES A CIRCULAR MOTION ON AN INCLINED PLANE VERY EASILY. ONCE THE BALL AND TARGET ARE INTRODUCED, THE PLAYER WANTS TO PUT THAT CLUBHEAD ON THAT BALL-TARGET LINE, AND THE CIRCLE SHAPE THEY ARE WANTING TO MAKE IS DESTROYED. It's the mistaken effort to put the clubhead tracking on the target line that ruins all chances of replicating the practice swing.

[12 piece bucket]

My 2 cents to answer #10...I have come to this conclusion after giving thousands of lessons over the years, and seeing hundreds of thousands of swings...the reason the practice swing is always better than when a ball is there, is because WITHOUT A BALL AND TARGET, THE PLAYER MAKES A CIRCULAR MOTION ON AN INCLINED PLANE VERY EASILY. ONCE THE BALL AND TARGET ARE INTRODUCED, THE PLAYER WANTS TO PUT THAT CLUBHEAD ON THAT BALL-TARGET LINE, AND THE CIRCLE SHAPE THEY ARE WANTING TO MAKE IS DESTROYED. It's the mistaken effort to put the clubhead tracking on the target line that ruins all chances of replicating the practice swing.

Very astute . . . I like it!

[BerntR]

Very astute . . . I like it!

Me too,

But only for beginners. Experienced players are way past this obstacle a long time ago. But still, you can see poor balance on TV among the greatest players in the world. From time to time.

Watching one of the pro tours on TV, it is often easy to predict the result by examining the balance & rythm of the players through their stroke. If they maintain balance & rythm, the putt will go in, the approach shot will end up close to the flag and the drive is likely to find the fairway. IMO, the loss of R is not the cause of poor shots for good players. It's the effect of the hand's effort to band-aid a poor swing. Sometimes the end result is good even though the players loose their R.

But good hands alone isn't enough to keep the game together for a long time.

[dss]

...but anyone who does not know to go to the inside aft quadrant. Trying to hit the back of the ball and keep the clubhead on the line to the target ruins the shape of the circle.

[Amen Corner]

How are you gonna play (or teach) golf well without knowing the answers of "My 10 Questions":

1. Why do beginners hit slices?
2. Why are the images of peoples' swings different from what they imagine?
3. Why can't people take their games to the golf course?
4. Why do people miss a 3(or even shorter)-footer?
5. Why can't people swing like Tiger, despite they watch his swing over and over and know exactly what it's like?
6. Why do people slip back to their old swings after taking lessons?
7. Why can't people hit it longer with a harder swing?
8. Why do people hit it into the hazards they try to avoid, but not the target they anticipate?
9. Why can't people repeat their best drives?
10. Why do people's practicing swing differ from their real swing?

And your answers are......????