I have read all the old stuff and the recent stuff on these topics and still can't say i really understand how i can use these in my game.... so i am going to beat down this door once and for all. I apologise if this appears "workmanlike" but I need to get this right...and I can not believe that every other guy here has got it all understood! - thanks for any assistance along the way.
The bits that confuse me are the descriptions of the straight/angled line delivery paths as being "cross line" procedures and.. the circle delivery path as "on-line"
I have always thought that :-
-online procedure means swing (arc of apporach) and
- cross line procedure mean hit (angle of approach)
So i get a few questions in my head
- Does that mean that a swinger needs/requires a circle delivery path??
I do not think so ...
- does that mean that if a swinger uses a straight line delivery path then it is a cross line procedure and they can use the angle of approach?
not sure...
- Now if i am aiming for a later release/more snap than sweep....I think i have to use a straight line delivery path ( not circle...circle path can not do snap release...right?).....
so what options does my right forearm have for covering or tracing?
I think that it can always trace the geometric plane line...but as I am now using a cross line procedure ...does that mean "out to right field" ( ie. more 10-5-E rather than 10-5-A...but that sounds too much like hitting!!!)
You can feel my confusion by now...i assume that some of my original assumptions are incorrect ...hence my confusion! Just not sure which bit of the puzzle is incorrect
- Is there a swinger's visual equivalent for the right forearm in a straight line delivery snap release??
A few worked examples may help my fog problem
Thanks very much for helping...PS. somewhere in the back of my mind is Hogan's picture of a "10-5-E style" downswing plane...is that a "cross -line feel" that he felt whilst actually being incorrect mechanics??
There needs to be a more confused smile than that...
Now add in the slide of the hips parallel to whatever and does that mean that a swinger slides his hips differently in a crcle delivery path as opposed to a straight line delivery path???
I have ignored this issue for nearly 2 years...grasping the words rather than the real meaning... time has come to lance this boil!
The bits that confuse me are the descriptions of the straight/angled line delivery paths as being "cross line" procedures and.. the circle delivery path as "on-line"
I have always thought that :-
-online procedure means swing (arc of apporach) and
- cross line procedure mean hit (angle of approach)
So i get a few questions in my head
- Does that mean that a swinger needs/requires a circle delivery path??
I do not think so ...
- does that mean that if a swinger uses a straight line delivery path then it is a cross line procedure and they can use the angle of approach?
not sure...
- Now if i am aiming for a later release/more snap than sweep....I think i have to use a straight line delivery path ( not circle...circle path can not do snap release...right?).....
I have ignored this issue for nearly 2 years...grasping the words rather than the real meaning... time has come to lance this boil!
I'll start to help, but understand that I'm not an authorized source.
However, the following is right out of the book.
Firstly, you must understand that paths are for hands and lines are for clubhead and forearm. So that makes your first few stated assumptions incorrect. That should answer some of your questions in the following.
A straight line delivery path holds the hands on a line from the top of the line
position directly at and through the aiming point. No plane shift.
An angled path is for a plane shift; a nearly vertical path of the hands down to the elbow plane followed by a straight line at and through the aiming point. Hands we're talking here, not clubhead.
The above has nothing to do with cross-line or on-line, which refers to delivery of clubhead and forearm. More on this later.
Then you have two paths for when your hands are above top of the line. The first short path is an arc back to the top of the line from which you then take a straight or angled path down, called Top Arc and Straight or Angled.
The Circle path is just a circle extension of the Top Arc (no matter where it is in relation to the top-of-the-line position, as assembly point can be anywhere on that arc) down to the aiming point. Normally used with No Axis Tilt, but not necessarily.
None of this has to do with cross-line or on-line delivery of clubhead or right forearm. So far we've only been talking about hands.
I'll start to help, but understand that I'm not an authorized source.
However, the following is right out of the book.
Firstly, you must understand that paths are for hands and lines are for clubhead and forearm. So that makes your first few stated assumptions incorrect. That should answer some of your questions in the following.
A straight line delivery path holds the hands on a line from the top of the line
position directly at and through the aiming point. No plane shift.
An angled path is for a plane shift; a nearly vertical path of the hands down to the elbow plane followed by a straight line at and through the aiming point. Hands we're talking here, not clubhead.
The above has nothing to do with cross-line or on-line, which refers to delivery of clubhead and forearm. More on this later.
....
Hi Loren, thanks for your reply but this quote states that paths (ie. of hands) are related to the concept of being cross-line or on-line...
7-23. POWER PACKAGE DELIVERY PATH
The three possible paths of the Hands down the Inclined Plane (10-23) are the Basic Delivery Procedures and the Delivery Line Equivalents (2-J-3) must comply with them. Per 2-J-3, the LINE Delivery Paths are "Cross Line" procedures and the CIRCLE Delivery Path is "On Line" in their relation to the geometric Plane Line.
You're right, it is confusing and will take some incubating.
I'm mainly going on Lynn's instruction on the Collin Neeman
series, Chapter 8 Delivery Path.
In that, and other places, Lynn always says that directing
pressure point #3 directly down the mentally-constructed
straight line from Top to inside-aft quadrant is the same
as tracing the line with pressure point #3.
I'm thinking now along the lines of, when drag loading, the
delivery line of the clubhead is the arc of approach even
with a straight line delivery path of the hands.
10-23-C, Top Arc and Straight line references drag loading,
10-19-C.
In 10-19-C it says "...accelerate the Clubshaft lengthwise....
Maintain this motion until the Release switches ends. This is
possible only if,..., Inertia can hold the Clubhead inside the arc
of the hands or hold to a Line Delivery Path (2-L)."
In fact, 2-L says nothing about a line delivery path. Rather
it's talking about only a Form III lever used in a golf stroke
and that no law of force or motion can be annulled. So that
is no help. Perhaps there is a typo in 10-19-C referencing
2-L?
At any rate, one could hardly go wrong tracing the base line,
or directing #3 in a straight line from Top to inside-aft quadrant
when drag loading. You might notice in start-down waggle that
the clubhead is taking an arc of approach path in either method
of monitoring the delivery line.
When Hitting, you also have an option of using Angle of approach,
10-5-E, a very steep plane and a cross-line bump.
I'll continue to incubate. I'm pretty sure that a line path of the
hands is not particular to drive loading, and that in swinging it
doesn't require an angle of approach, or "cross-line bump".
Last edited by Loren : 01-04-2008 at 04:13 AM.
Reason: Clarify referencing 10-19-C from 10-23-C.
...I'm pretty sure that a line path of the
hands is not particular to drive loading, and that in swinging it
doesn't require an angle of approach, or "cross-line bump".
Hi Loren - I agree with this bit...
But it does not make the words I found in 7-23 easier to understand!
It clearly states that the Line paths are cross line procedures. That section was not present in the thrid edition (it first appeared in 1979 - I think - I do not have the 1st or 2nd editions but it was definitely not in 7-23 in 1975 3rd edition).
Homer must have meant what he said.
Is is a way of expressing the feeling that Hogan had of his downswing going out to right field? ie. a cross line feel of the hands??
- thanks for any assistance along the way.
Hybrid Mode
