Arc of Approach

[Wali]

Hi everyone,
I'm a newbie here and want to first say thank you, thank you, thank you. This site is the best golf forum on the internet. The obvious reason is it is based on TGM but as important are the friendly members and their posts.

I have (actually I should say attempted) to read and understand Homer's book. And as many others before me, have strugled in understanding all of the contents and nuances.

I do have my first question. Homer states that the Arc of Approach should always be negative (down toward the ball.) He does not differentiate between irons or woods that I saw. Everything I have read however regarding the driver says that the Arc of Approach should be positive, that being, hitting on the up stroke to minimize spin and therefore increase distance.

In the January 2008 issue of Golf Magazine, Charlie King wrote an instructional article titled, "The Easy Way to Add 20 Yards." What caught my eye was a table of data that showed driving distances of varying clubhead speeds and angles of attack with the driver.

What are everyone's feeling regarding this issue?

Thanks,
Wali

[Richie3Jack]

Trackman is showing that for extra distance, you need to hit very slightly up on the driver. Attempting to hit up with the driver can be tricky though. My best guess is to just move the ball up further with the driver.



3JACK

[O.B.Left]

Welcome guys. Great question too. Obviously the long drive guys hit up on it to lessen the spin and increase the launch angle. On the other hand Tiger can often be seen to tee a driver kind of low and take it before low point.. Maybe he is not trying to maximize distance here but is hitting a shot of some kind.....probably the "lets just get it in the friggin fairway" shot.

Agreed on how to hit it on the up swing, tee it in front of low point.

This is a good question for our pros. Im thinking it is a special purposes long bomb shot not necessarily an every drive kind of deal but I could be wrong. Certainly the club fitting guys are always trying to get us to tee it high and hit it way up there. I personally dont like that as much as taking it around low point but with a 10.5 degree driver.

ob

[Yoda]

Certainly the club fitting guys are always trying to get us to tee it high and hit it way up there. I personally dont like that as much as taking it around low point but with a 10.5 degree driver.

Thanks to Homer Kelley, the Geometry of Low Point (2-N-0) has become more and more mainstream. The 'best' instructors -- read 'Top 100' in the popular magazines -- more and more make reference to it. Similarly, the Long Drive Guys benefit from its wisdom, i.e., post-Low Point Impact means less Backspin.

So, is Backspin the bad guy?

No.

Per 2-C-0, Backspin is not Compression Leakage; instead, it is a valuable component of Ball Control.

Years ago, Lee Trevino waxed eloquent on this point. Demonstrating, he arched his left wrist into an Impact condition and leaned the clubshaft forward. Said he:

"Give me a club with loft . . . I'll take it off!"

[Thom]

Yoda and others. What do you think of my theory of the connection between trackman and launch monitor data showing more distance swinging up, and the growing demand of open faced drivers?

[O.B.Left]

Yoda and others. What do you think of my theory of the connection between trackman and launch monitor data showing more distance swinging up, and the growing demand of open faced drivers?

Interesting point Thom

You got me thinking about hinging and hitting up. Would angled hinging be superior to horizontal for the this? Or perhaps a clubface adjustment to a slightly more open position in fix?

ob

[3Putt]

Trackman is showing that for extra distance, you need to hit very slightly up on the driver. Attempting to hit up with the driver can be tricky though. My best guess is to just move the ball up further with the driver.

2-J-2 is pretty clear......The ball should always be struck prior to the low point of the Downstroke, even when using a Driver,... This statement is what seems to contradict trackman and launch monitor data and seems to be a popular topic.

I've been wondering, is it possible to align the machine such that you can contact the ball just prior to low point but still have the clubhead be travelling "up" relative to the ground? In other words, can the machine be tilted such that the plane line is not horizontal (parallel to the ground) but rather rising in the direction of the target (sort of like a virtual uphill lie). The ball would be launched at a greater launch angle relative to the ground but still adhering to the words from 2-J-2 above. This tilt would not be possible for a ball played off the ground as the club would plow into the ground before the ball, but when teed up, there is some room to drop below the level of the ball.

I don't know if these words make any sense or not, nor do I know if its even geometrically possible. But I would like to table the thought.

3Putt

[yodeli]

Everything I have read however regarding the driver says that the Arc of Approach should be positive, that being, hitting on the up stroke to minimize spin and therefore increase distance.
Wali

Indeed, the data provided by Launch monitors and club manufacturers is to take into account.

However, the concept of hitting up with the driver is misleading the average golfer who understands it as an encouragement to scoop under the ball with the driver in an attempt to lift the ball in the air...

But if you know your lessons and mix to your advantage:

• ball position relative to low point,
• the aiming point concept,
• the launch monitor's data,

you should end up with the ball positioned an inch up plane after low point and touch the ball on your clubhead's up travel.

Now, it is vital that you must not forget to direct your thrust DOWN even AFTER LOW POINT.
Low point is not the end of the DOWN because you should still have some right arm to extend untill the end of the follow through (both arms straight).

This is the only way to stay TGM correct (geometrically correct) and use the launch monitor's data to your advantage.

[O.B.Left]

Indeed, the data provided by Launch monitors and club manufacturers is to take into account.

However, the concept of hitting up with the driver is misleading the average golfer who understands it as an encouragement to scoop under the ball with the driver in an attempt to lift the ball in the air...

But if you know your lessons and mix to your advantage:

• ball position relative to low point,
• the aiming point concept,
• the launch monitor's data,

you should end up with the ball positioned an inch up plane after low point and touch the ball on your clubhead's up travel.

Now, it is vital that you must not forget to direct your thrust DOWN even AFTER LOW POINT.
Low point is not the end of the DOWN because you should still have some right arm to extend untill the end of the follow through (both arms straight).

This is the only way to stay TGM correct (geometrically correct) and use the launch monitor's data to your advantage.

Yodeli your on fire and lighting up the whole board, keep going while your hot.

So the thrust, as directed through the pressure points 1,2,3 (4 being up in the arm/chest) is On Plane, Forward, Down, Out and towards the plane line after impact, after low point and until.......................when? Both arms straight? The club switches ends? The club points at the extension of the plane line on the horizon line?

Or am I getting mixed up, thrust being a straight line?

ob

[yodeli]

Yodeli your on fire and lighting up the whole board, keep going while your hot.

So the thrust, as directed through the pressure points 1,2,3 (4 being up in the arm/chest) is On Plane, Forward, Down, Out and towards the plane line after impact, after low point and until.......................when? Both arms straight? The club switches ends? The club points at the extension of the plane line on the horizon line?

Or am I getting mixed up, thrust being a straight line?
ob

You're right OB, I'm boilling like termonuclear lava !
that's because I'm pasionnate about Golf and happy to help back others as they did with me on Lynn's wonderfull site!

Back to your question:
1-L-15: The club starts up and in after low point but the thrust continues Down Plane during the Follow-Through

6-C-2-A "...the Accumulators will not be released by this action until the Right Elbow can straighten (ie: both arms straight, the end of the follow through). Even then the Clubhead Lag is still maintained -- it has NO Release point."

Also, check this video (Hitting vs Swinging) on the Gallery and listen what Lynn says starting at 1:14.
This should answer your question about when the swich ends.

The club points at the extension of the plane line on the horizon line?

Or am I getting mixed up, thrust being a straight line?
ob

The direction of your Thrust and the direction your shaft is pointing are two separate things.
The more important is to put you mind on directing your thrust (ie: where is my PP#3 travelling?).
Your clubshaft/clubhead will follow all the time!
However, it is interesting to monitor where the clubshaft points at to check if the clubshaft lies on plane... (if not, it tells you that you're not moving PP#3 on the right track...... try again, look, look, look!)

As a result, the clubshaft should always points at the base of the plane line (either the clubhead or the but of the grip) to the horizon line.
Remember that after both arms straight, your left arm will swivel, allowing the shaft to "replane", the but end of the grip pointing now at the base of the plane.

But all this is a byproduct of sensing PP#3 :

• going down plane (aiming point) - yes, thrust is a straight line - spear a fish.
  OR
• tracing the base of the plane - tracing a straight line from the horizon to the horizon.

Two way to direct the thrust - two intentions - but funnilly enough, same travel of the hands! Your preference.