Level Hips

[Mike O]

A first class div 1 college golfer, is taking lessons from
an instructor in Atlanta, Not Ted Forte. His instructor
will not work on the backswing until issues are worked out
on the pivot. His instuctor would like level hips on the
backswing and a straighting left leg into impact. Does the
Hula Hula favor slanted hip or level hips. I alwalys felt
that slanted hips was the program. I asked a friend who is
and instuctor at Ledbetter, and she said, always level hips.
I don't buy that. What are your thoughts.

How do you define "Hip"? How do you define "level" in this context? How does working on the hip motion or any pivot related motion in the backswing qualify as not working on the "backswing"? Why does the instructor want "level" hips on the backswing and a straightening left leg towards impact? What would be the causes of these movements or are we just changing them directly without understanding the nature, cause, purpose of those motions?

[O.B.Left]

Look at the difference in the amount the knees go forward and the hips as well.

In some swings the left knee does get outside of the left ankle . . . In all swings generally there is some straightening of the right knee and flexing of the left even when the knee action is double anchor. So the question becomes what knee action is best for my pattern? Knee action is a big piece in controlling the tilt of the hips and in turn controling the plane of the shoulder turn . . . in both directions.

You note the different knee action of Snead and Hogan thru the ball. Sneads left knee gets straighter faster and thus his hips don't go as far forward with the hips as Hogan. The amount of rotation in the hips and shoulders are going to differ as well and thus they have different hand paths as a result.

But what if.......we viewed the Pivot (Zone 1 power) as being comprised of a top section, the Pivot Center and a bottom section , the Hips. Now the Pivot Center stays centered of course and the Hips if you so choose can Tilt the Axis with a Hula , Hula flexibility and move to and fro laterally. In this manner the legs could be said to have the singular purpose of steadying the Pivot Center , their movement being supportive, foundational, anchor like as opposed to powerful. As if they balanced or offset the cantilever like motion of the hips. In this way, rare though it is, a flat turn of the hips in the backswing would create Right Anchor and a more tilted turn of the hips in Finish would create a straightening left leg. I bet the legs would still look pretty dynamic this way, powerless though they would be. Hands to Pivot, Pivot to Legs if you will. Hope we are in the Lab right now.

This is what I am incubating right now anyways, having been a knee driver for 30 some odd years.

[dkerby]

MikeO and O.B. Left & Bucket, I think that the questions that
you are offering are the explanaitions that the instructor
should be giving to the student. They would certainly
help the student unstand what he is trying to do. Seems
that the instructor wants to improve the pivot but the
why and how to seem vague. Thanks, I will pass it along.

[O.B.Left]

Informative post OB, thanks! I am currently working on keeping my left foot flat...it rolls a bit.It took me a while to figure out that what the hips do (or actually fail to do) is key. However I never considered Knudson's idea on the relationship of the left foot to low point. In fact I have worked diligently to match my left shoulder to the inside of my left foot, so that I can reference ball position in relation to low point using my stance. So Knudson beleived that the left foot should be positioned target-side of low point? Interesting wrinkle, thanks for sharing.

Hope it helps Okie

If you are interested Knudson had a couple of other foot related, pivot insights.

He really believed strongly in what we would term the three Stations: Address, Top , Finish. When playing for score he said he only thought of attaining a balanced finish, which for him had the left foot flat and the body in perfect balance, facing the hole exactly (he believed the ball went where his core pointed). Here is the trick, to attain his Finish he would get a student to pose at Finish to determine how comfortable it was all the while adjusting the splay of the left foot. All of our feet are splayed differently and so he reasoned that we all need our own particular amount of left foot splay at address. Just enough to let us get a comfortable Finish. Any less and our bodies wont want us or let us get there without some compensation.....saggy knee, spin out etc etc.

The other main one was to drag the right foot slightly towards the left through the shot. Its ensures getting left as you cant drag it if it is weighted. The amount of drag being flexibility dependent. By dragging the right foot the aging, inflexible golfer can have the Finish of young man.

I dont know whether he sought Hogans advice on these things or not. He didnt say. But Hogan did do a little right foot drag himself. George's was very pronounced in later years. Its sounds weird at first but try it and see if it gets you left and firms up your left side automatically. It does for me anyways.

So load up a flat foot or see something else further up the chain react in compensation. The central command center doesnt want to load an unstable base. Trying to fix the saggy knee or whatever is pointless, it only sends the problem somewhere further up the chain. Fix the bottom end of the Machine where it attaches to the ground. Anchor the Machine.

[KevCarter]

Hope it helps Okie

If you are interested Knudson had a couple of other foot related, pivot insights.

He really believed strongly in what we would term the three Stations: Address, Top , Finish. When playing for score he said he only thought of attaining a balanced finish, which for him had the left foot flat and the body in perfect balance, facing the hole exactly (he believed the ball went where his core pointed). Here is the trick, to attain his Finish he would get a student to pose at Finish to determine how comfortable it was all the while adjusting the splay of the left foot. All of our feet are splayed differently and so he reasoned that we all need our own particular amount of left foot splay at address. Just enough to let us get a comfortable Finish. Any less and our bodies wont want us or let us get there without some compensation.....saggy knee, spin out etc etc.

The other main one was to drag the right foot slightly towards the left through the shot. Its ensures getting left as you cant drag it if it is weighted. The amount of drag being flexibility dependent. By dragging the right foot the aging, inflexible golfer can have the Finish of young man.

I dont know whether he sought Hogans advice on these things or not. He didnt say. But Hogan did do a little right foot drag himself. George's was very pronounced in later years. Its sounds weird at first but try it and see if it gets you left and firms up your left side automatically. It does for me anyways.

So load up a flat foot or see something else further up the chain react in compensation. The central command center doesnt want to load an unstable base. Trying to fix the saggy knee or whatever is pointless, it only sends the problem somewhere further up the chain. Fix the bottom end of the Machine where it attaches to the ground. Anchor the Machine.

Thank you for another AWESOME post!

Kevin

[O.B.Left]

Thanks Kev

For me, with my left foot addressed rather square to the Base Line, I cant hold my Finish for a long time, even if Im just posing, without some stress on my left calf and knee. So my body wont let me do it, risk a knee twist for a real golf shot. It protects me by spinning the left foot and bending the left knee. When I stand normally, my feet are splayed out a fair bit, British Army style. We're all a bit different. Two feet held square to the line is kind of in vogue these days, ok for some maybe but Tiger for one is now a little more splayed with the left according to Golf Digest. I like the Knudson deal for determining how much you should do it.

The right foot I guess would be the same deal but with different objectives, intentions. I like Mikes "to what end" observation above.

[KevCarter]

Thanks Kev

For me, with my left foot addressed rather square to the Base Line, I cant hold my Finish for a long time, even if Im just posing, without some stress on my left calf and knee. So my body wont let me do it, risk a knee twist for a real golf shot. It protects me by spinning the left foot and bending the left knee. When I stand normally, my feet are splayed out a fair bit, British Army style. We're all a bit different. Two feet held square to the line is kind of in vogue these days, ok for some maybe but Tiger for one is now a little more splayed with the left according to Golf Digest. I like the Knudson deal for determining how much you should do it.

The right foot I guess would be the same deal but with different objectives, intentions. I like Mikes "to what end" observation above.

I'm just standing in the pro shop doing Yoda's goal post drill. Your suggestion on angle of the left foot makes a huge difference in the ease of holding the finish position!

Kevin

[dodger]

Kevin, how about an explanation of the goal post drill. You showed it to me, would be nice to have a written explanation as it can really help the underplaners.

[O.B.Left]

I was wondering about that too. Im thinking maybe a double Chief Dan George "how" and some pivoting but might be wrong. "Come out of the pro shop with your hands in the air at shoulder height". Is that it?

[KevCarter]

OB is close!

This is Lynn's deal, if I goof on the explanation, I hope someone will jump in and correct me.

I posted in this thread, because I felt OB's ideas on flaring the left foot were a HUGE help with this drill. It is VERY basic:

Simply stand with your hands up, like OB said, and turn left to the target with level shoulders and keeping the goal posts. Feel how your weight shifted to your left foot, and your right foot came up on it's toes with your right knee facing the target? PERFECT finish position, it's that easy. It gets you to finish without thinking about your impact alignments.

If you are not very flexible in the hips, a problem of mine, it's very difficult to hold this finish if your lead foot is perpendicular to the target line. Flare the left foot and you can hold the finish much easier. Be careful, for some of us, if the left foot is flared too much, it's difficult to move your right hip out of the way of the power package on the back stroke. You need to find the middle ground where you can both turn on the back stroke, and stick your finish.

From Homer Kelley:

12-3-0 MECHANICAL CHECKLIST FOR ALL STROKES

This is a Section by Section (Chapter 8 ) checklist to improve the execution of the
Stroke and reduce the Twelve Sections to a three station Total Motion (6-P-0).
They are: A. The Address (8-0/1/2/3); B. The Top (8-6); C. The Finish (8-12).
That is – be prepared as possible before Start Up (3-F-5), as precise as possible
through The Top (6-E) and as smooth and complete as possible through Impact to
the proper position at The Finish (2-N). See 6-M-0. To the degree that every
step is improved, to that degree is the Total Motion improved.

-

I am simply trying to regurgitate the teaching of the MASTER YODA. Please correct me if I have posted any incorrect information. Whenever I teach now, it's WWYD, what would Yoda do? When I nail it, my students are very happy!

Kevin