TENSION

[lagster]

One definition of Extensor Action is-- "extension without tension". This is referring to LEFT ARM tension.

There has been some discussion whether there should even be any RIGHT ARM tension, especially when employing a Pure swinging Machine.

From my observatons there are some types of SWINGS OR STROKES that do have very little Tension in both arms. Both arms are more Rope-like. Goosen and Miller Barber are two that look this way to me.

If you look at Sergio at Address, and at Impact... his left arm is also slightly bent.

The Extensor Action Technique has been proven by many on this forum and elsewhere to be of great value. The Radius of the Left Arm Rope is maintained throughout the stroke. I believe, however, that it must be done in such a way as not to induce a rigid, muscle contracting tension. The player must still be athletic.

A Hitter, may be able to have more of a certain type of Tension, than a Swinger, but even they probably should not STIFFEN UP their muscles.

If the Stroke is efficient... would not centrifugal force cause the rope to straighten somewhat on it's own?

TENSION is the topic here, by the way, not Extensor Action. Just from some of the posts, it seems that there are some considerable differences in the FEEL and/or the way it is employed by various people... usually relating to TENSION.

What do you think?

[12 piece bucket]

Good question. Not qualified to answer but I have heard many times "the left arm is a piece of rope." A rope has no tension but can be stretched.

In addition I would like to know about tension in the right wrist for both swinging and hitting? How can the right wrist be "unstressed" per Mr. K implying not tension and "frozen" too?

[birdie_man]

I like to feel like my right hand is slowly acceleratingi the club back during my takeaway. You need to pull on your left arm slightly to get the backswing in motion and then once you have it in motion just keep pulling lightly until the top. I want to feel like I'm creating a bit of momentum at first and then just helping it along and going with it without getting in it's way. The first move in the takeaway should be smooth.

Kind of like rolling a ball with your putter while keeping the ball on the clubface...if you accelerate too fast the ball will not stay on the face. It will shoot ahead.

I like to envision the general motion of Vijay's takeaway for some reason. So smooth.

That's the way I see it.

[EdZ]

Just saw your thread/question - literally seconds after replying to the extensor action thread on this very issue

Not to double post, but yes the 'swinging club' provides the work - for swingers - to maintain exensor action. Personally, I think the 'swing' must be there as well for hitters. To the extent that you can do so, lack of any tension beyond that needed for structure is wasted effort.

Lack of tension can make up for some mistakes earlier in the swing, letting the physics of the 'swinging force' take over. Much easier to keep your timing/tempo if you are free of tension and 'flowing' with the club.

[birdie_man]

Just saw your thread/question - literally seconds after replying to the extensor action thread on this very issue

Not to double post, but yes the 'swinging club' provides the work - for swingers - to maintain exensor action. Personally, I think the 'swing' must be there as well for hitters. To the extent that you can do so, lack of any tension beyond that needed for structure is wasted effort.

Lack of tension can make up for some mistakes earlier in the swing, letting the physics of the 'swinging force' take over. Much easier to keep your timing/tempo if you are free of tension and 'flowing' with the club.

Great post EdZ...do you teach golf?

[Martee]

Over the years on various forums this has been a topic. There are some who will say you need make the stroke without tension while others will point out you can't move the club without the muscles and creating tension. Much of this appears to me to be a word game or misunderstanding.

Tension that is felt that locks up joint movement is counterproductive in the golf stroke. This reduces the range of motion, this will reduce the speed at which body parts can move.

I recently encounter a PT who was explaining that more flexible you are the more you can apply your muscles before reaching a point that causes restrictions. The quick example was to be standing, with your arm bent at the elbow and make a fist with the wrist bent backwards. Now move it back and forth while making the fist as tight as possible, movement is slower and more strained. Now start to loosen the fist a bit and notice the movement can be faster, longer and less strained.

I would address the ball in the Impact Fix position and in the process create tension in the upper arms. This was a killer to the golf stroke.

I see that there is good Tension and bad Tension and it will vary between individuals (here is where a small bit of fitness can go a long way). Tension that restricts is bad. Tension that supports is good.

[EdZ]

Originally Posted by EdZ

Just saw your thread/question - literally seconds after replying to the extensor action thread on this very issue Not to double post, but yes the 'swinging club' provides the work - for swingers - to maintain exensor action. Personally, I think the 'swing' must be there as well for hitters. To the extent that you can do so, lack of any tension beyond that needed for structure is wasted effort. Lack of tension can make up for some mistakes earlier in the swing, letting the physics of the 'swinging force' take over. Much easier to keep your timing/tempo if you are free of tension and 'flowing' with the club.

Great post EdZ...do you teach golf?

Yes, I have in the past, but not for the last few years. I've recently moved across the country, and am looking to start teaching again this season as a matter of fact. Just need to work on some networking/logistics. Tough when you move to a new area and don't know anyone!

[lagster]

Originally Posted by birdie_man

Originally Posted by EdZ Just saw your thread/question - literally seconds after replying to the extensor action thread on this very issue Not to double post, but yes the 'swinging club' provides the work - for swingers - to maintain exensor action. Personally, I think the 'swing' must be there as well for hitters. To the extent that you can do so, lack of any tension beyond that needed for structure is wasted effort. Lack of tension can make up for some mistakes earlier in the swing, letting the physics of the 'swinging force' take over. Much easier to keep your timing/tempo if you are free of tension and 'flowing' with the club. Great post EdZ...do you teach golf?

Yes, I have in the past, but not for the last few years. I've recently moved across the country, and am looking to start teaching again this season as a matter of fact. Just need to work on some networking/logistics. Tough when you move to a new area and don't know anyone!

EdZ,

Goosen and A. Sorenstam look as if they Swing in the way you are talking about. Their arms look very free of tension. Goosen's and Sorenstam's left arms are both even relaxed at IMPACT. There is no attempt to keep them straight, and they are not straight. They both seem to strike the ball well, however.

I remember Tom Tomasello said, "a hitter can stiffen up that left arm all he wants, but a Swinger should have a tension free left arm." "Extension without tension."

I would think that abrupt changes in TENSION levels during a Stroke may result in unintended reactions during the Stroke, due to the 3rd Law.

[hcw]

One definition of Extensor Action is-- "extension without tension". This is referring to LEFT ARM tension.

There has been some discussion whether there should even be any RIGHT ARM tension, especially when employing a Pure swinging Machine....
What do you think?

i understand "Extensor Action" as something acting on the lead arm to keep it (mostly) extended/straight rather than flexed/bent-at-elbow...does that sound right?...lagster, am I correct in thinking that by "tension" you are meaning stiff/tense/contracted muscles?...now you can keep your lead arm extended/straight by getting it that way (eg letting it hang down straight) and then making all the muscles in your lead arm stiff/tense/contracted, but you can also keep it that way by continued pulling action of the trail arm during the BS (caused by stiffening/tensing/contracting of the trail arm biceps and deltoids mostly, i think) , which is what i believe is advocated by master yoda...now at some point at the top/end i guess this has to change and different muscles take over stiffening/tensing/contracting for the DS and which ones do i think depends on whether you are swinging or hitting...back to tension, if your arm muscles are totally stiff/tense/contracted (think squeezing the club as hard as possible and trying to pull the grip apart) then you aren't going to be able to use those muscles on the BS b/c they are already maximally stiff/tense/contracted and the only way to move the club is twisting/tilting your torso and shoulders...if you don't relax them for the DS, then it's going to be all body driven, stiff, ugly, and not very powerful i think...anyway, my point is that you need stiffening/tensing/contracting of various muscles, followed by those relaxing and others then stiffening/tensing/contracting but i don't think any constant totally stiff/tense/contracted muscle is a good idea...

-hcw

[lagster]

Originally Posted by lagster

One definition of Extensor Action is-- "extension without tension". This is referring to LEFT ARM tension. There has been some discussion whether there should even be any RIGHT ARM tension, especially when employing a Pure swinging Machine.... What do you think?

i understand "Extensor Action" as something acting on the lead arm to keep it (mostly) extended/straight rather than flexed/bent-at-elbow...does that sound right?...lagster, am I correct in thinking that by "tension" you are meaning stiff/tense/contracted muscles?...now you can keep your lead arm extended/straight by getting it that way (eg letting it hang down straight) and then making all the muscles in your lead arm stiff/tense/contracted, but you can also keep it that way by continued pulling action of the trail arm during the BS (caused by stiffening/tensing/contracting of the trail arm biceps and deltoids mostly, i think) , which is what i believe is advocated by master yoda...now at some point at the top/end i guess this has to change and different muscles take over stiffening/tensing/contracting for the DS and which ones do i think depends on whether you are swinging or hitting...back to tension, if your arm muscles are totally stiff/tense/contracted (think squeezing the club as hard as possible and trying to pull the grip apart) then you aren't going to be able to use those muscles on the BS b/c they are already maximally stiff/tense/contracted and the only way to move the club is twisting/tilting your torso and shoulders...if you don't relax them for the DS, then it's going to be all body driven, stiff, ugly, and not very powerful i think...anyway, my point is that you need stiffening/tensing/contracting of various muscles, followed by those relaxing and others then stiffening/tensing/contracting but i don't think any constant totally stiff/tense/contracted muscle is a good idea...

-hcw

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I believe what we are really getting at here is one's ability to produce a level of efficiency in one's motion. This usually gives the appearance to onlookers of athleticism and confidence in the performing golfer.

The opposite would be the golfer that appears WOODEN, or JERKY, or UNATHLETIC in their motions.

I believe there is a type of DESTRUCTIVE TENSION that could be induced by a variety of factors, including.... POOR TECHNIQUE, POOR CONCEPT, LACK OF CONFIDENCE, FEAR or ANXIETY, POOR PHYSICAL CONDITIONING, PHYSICAL INJURIES, or a COMBINATION of these.

Many good golfers may FEEL that they are COILED, WOUND UP, or LOADED UP, or some similar thing, but I believe this is quite different than the DESTRUCTIVE TENSION described above.

What do you think?