A picture I found of Hogan late in life. I think a very good case can be made that the right shoulder is still in line to drive the main lever of the power package here at P5.
Steve Stricker working on similar alignments at top?
NICE . . . still able to do it when old and crusty and still on a busted set of 170 year old wheels . . .
If you look at those pics of Fowler and Rose in comparison . . . there is definitely some differences in how their right arms and shoulders are working . . . not saying those cats are "wrong" . . both are amazing talents . . . but which of the 3 has the right shoulder providing the most "support" for the release motion of the right arm?
NICE . . . still able to do it when old and crusty and still on a busted set of 170 year old wheels . . .
If you look at those pics of Fowler and Rose in comparison . . . there is definitely some differences in how their right arms and shoulders are working . . . not saying those cats are "wrong" . . both are amazing talents . . . but which of the 3 has the right shoulder providing the most "support" for the release motion of the right arm?
I see it. Very important stuff Bucket!
Possibly why some really good teachers of the machine are able to look so lazy through impact while still generating massive power? Alignments and Sequencing!!!
Kevin
__________________
I could be wrong. I have been before, and will be again.
All golfers use CF. Some use it to Uncock the Left Wrist and Unbend the Right Elbow and Some use Right Arm Thrust to Straighten the Right Elbow and Uncock the Left Wrist.
Quote:
With Drive Loading (10-19-A) the outward pull of Centrifugal Force tends to conceal but cannot cancel the considerable contribution of a pre-stressed (Bent) Clubshaft, though it is Bent even more at Separation.
All golfers use CF. Some use it to Uncock the Left Wrist and Unbend the Right Elbow and Some use Right Arm Thrust to Straighten the Right Elbow and Uncock the Left Wrist.
Cool with me! I don't wanna fight with you! We been in enough fights with other foolz in the past 2 months right!
So let's discuss Fowler and Rose vs. Hogan . . . .
How would you catalog? Or is it possible? Are Fowler and Rose executing a plane line shift? Or is that what swinging "looks like" . . . or is it Hitting? Or is it off plane motion?
They are certainly doing something different than Hogan right?
Ok bucket are you saying the right shoulder follows the left elbow pocket or does it drive it. I guess swinging you could follow it or in hitting you could drive it. How does this relate to the "mind in the hands". Perhaps this type of swing thought could prevent the OTT move or the underplane problem. I anxiously await further flywheel and platform explanations. Once I've gottem then pray for a break in the temp so I can go to the range. Sorry you have to work bucket. I am going to sit by the fire all day like most old folks.
I don't want to be presumptuous, in thinking that I can speak in place of His Royal Highness, Lord Bucket. But, I'll give you some opinions from a commoner.
In 2-H, Homer writes about the direction of the Right Shoulder:
"But the Shoulders do have crucial On Plane functions – synchronizing and aligning the Pivot Motion and Thrust with those of the Power Package (Chapter 6). “On Plane” Right Shoulder Motion is possible only by titling its axis – the spine. See 7-14. In this area the Left Shoulder is helpless. The geometry of Shoulder Control deals only with Right Shoulder, for there are no guide lines for Left Shoulder control of the Right Shoulder. Therefore, variations in Right Shoulder location will vary the Left Shoulder location at Impact and, consequently, the Low Point location as well as the Angle of Approach (2-N).
Being a part of the Pivot and the Power Package, the Right Shoulder must reconcile them by moving with the greatest precision for thrust, speed, direction and distance. (7-3) So the Right Shoulder does not flap around haphazardly – it has many responsibilities. And variations in its Impact location will vary the Right Elbow’s Impact Bend and so may alter the Impact alignment of the Clubface."
So, the Right Shoulder can have direction, because it can move toward a Plane Line. There's no specific direction in "swinging left", as there's no direction for the Left Shoulder or the Hips. The Hips rotate more on a horizontal plane than on the inclined Plane. Therefore, giving them any direction is haphazard.
As the ball and Plane Line get closer to the body with a shorter club, the Plane steepens. As the ball and Plane Line moves away from the body with a longer club, the Plane shallows. Therefore, a Shoulder Turn Throw differs in direction with ball location. We do have options or preferences in steeper versus flatter Planes, as Nicklaus and Hogan were both successful.
When the Right Shoulder, the #3PP, and the Sweet Spot are married together at Top and move in the same direction in Start Down, the forces are aligned for maximum efficiency. Divergent forces are simply less efficient, but are found all the time on the PGA Tour.
In my own 4 Barrel Hit, the Pivot Drags the Power package toward the Plane Line with a Shoulder Turn Throw (10-20-C). And, I follow with a Right Arm Throw (10-20-B). It feels like I’m throwing a baseball at the golf ball.
Cool with me! I don't wanna fight with you! We been in enough fights with other foolz in the past 2 months right!
So let's discuss Fowler and Rose vs. Hogan . . . .
How would you catalog? Or is it possible? Are Fowler and Rose executing a plane line shift? Or is that what swinging "looks like" . . . or is it Hitting? Or is it off plane motion?
They are certainly doing something different than Hogan right?
Lets see if we can see and understand the Plane Shift in the same way. The Plane Shift does not need to occur at Release. I think that for many Golfers the Plane Shift does occur at Release but both Hogan and Fowler Plane Shift at Startdown and their Sequenced Releases occur on the Elbow Plane.
Your observation of the Post Impact Clubshaft Angle at Follow-through is correct. I don't think that they're on the same Plane that they were at Impact. But I don't equate that with Hitting or Swinging. I would equate that with "Pivot Controlled Hands". It's allowing the Pivot to control the Alignments. I'm sure that they could teach their Pivot to move their Hands like Hogan moved His Hands but I think that the jury is still out on Hogan whether he used Pivot Controlled Hands vs Hands Controlled Pivot.
Can we separately discuss Plane Shifts because I think that either Acceleration Procedure, Hitting or Swinging can use any shift and any number of Shifts and almost anywhere in the Swing except Release through Follow-Through.
I don't want to be presumptuous, in thinking that I can speak in place of His Royal Highness, Lord Bucket. But, I'll give you some opinions from a commoner.
In 2-H, Homer writes about the direction of the Right Shoulder:
...
Very nice tie together with the book Ted. I never think to look in Chapter 2. Got to get over my fear of that chapter!
Thanks!
Kevin
__________________
I could be wrong. I have been before, and will be again.
Your observation of the Post Impact Clubshaft Angle at Follow-through is correct. I don't think that they're on the same Plane that they were at Impact. But I don't equate that with Hitting or Swinging. I would equate that with "Pivot Controlled Hands". It's allowing the Pivot to control the Alignments. I'm sure that they could teach their Pivot to move their Hands like Hogan moved His Hands but I think that the jury is still out on Hogan whether he used Pivot Controlled Hands vs Hands Controlled Pivot.
...
Can't the pivot assist with power by driving the lever, but still be CONTROLLED by the hands?
Kevin
__________________
I could be wrong. I have been before, and will be again.
Can't the pivot assist with power by driving the lever, but still be CONTROLLED by the hands?
Kevin
Yes......
The Pivot generates the Raw underlying Power either like a Flywheel or, in addition, acts like a Backstop for Right Arm Thrust.
What tells the Pivot where to go?? The Hands should. The Pivot should go where the Hands need it to go and not subjugate the Hands into trying to accommodate the Pivot. The Pivot should Accommodate the Hands. But you can be very successful either way........
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