Just my humble opinion, but I've tried Right Arm Swinging and the best I can describe it is, 1, 2, 3 with loosened wrists per 10-K-3 and longitudinal right arm pull. The pivot is in motion but not "active". I've given right arm swinging a college try (That would be a Masters level try for you DG ) on and off the course. I like it and it's effective, but not my style. When you are a natural hitter it's tempting to use right arm swinging. A pure longitudinal pull with the right forearm to the aiming point.
Speaking for myself, its hard to have any focus on keeping the right forearm wedge intact like you would with a normal pivot driven swing, so let CF line things up with the right forearm wedge through impact. This is due to the "loosened wrists". Normally the right wrist stays fixed in it's bent and level condition without cocking or uncocking. In a right arm swing, the loosened right wrist tends to cock and uncock on the downswing as the right elbow uncocks per the procedure. It's purely a function of centrifigal force acting on the "loosened" right wrist, unless you want to use a non-automatic release of the #2 accumulator. In my case this results in a borderline random sweep/full sweep release but also prevents any elbow strain for some reason.
Longitudinal swinging with the right arm is a valid option if done correctly. I resist endorsing it due to the "potential" for injury, just like I would resist endorsing any pivot move that would injure the back or hips. (Note DG - Endorsing pertains to my duty as site admin, and any liability associated with it's content.) For those new to the site, DG is our unofficial right arm swing evangelist and we appreciate his expertise in that area.
The only time I've experienced right elbow twing is when the right elbow is out of position for the motion. I've had right elbow soreness for several weeks, multiple times over the course of two years. I may be wrong, but if my elbow is in a pitch basic position and I attempt to push, it will stress the ligaments. I think an OTT move with push basic may have the same results. I'm certain its' because I'm not doing it correctly at times.
I would really like to explore the right and wrong way to do right arm swinging without injury. I think its based on having the proper right elbow position at release. It would be a great groundbreaking study to know and would supplement Toms work.
I've rambled enough and probably taken this thread off topic.
I'll leave it up to Bucket if this thread is beginning to get off topic or not.
Bucket - You da man, let us know. We can take this right arm, longitudinal swing somewhere else and do some more digging.
I just had a Lesson with Ben Doyle. More on that later. I was "left Arm Swinging" and Driving the Ball about 255 Yards. Another guy was Swinging and Driving the Ball 300 Yards. I asked Ben "What's going on?". He said the other guy was "Right Arm Swinging". We put him on video and sure enough Ben said, "See, he gets all that power from his right arm". I asked "is he still swinging then?" and Ben said "Ya, a right arm swinger". Enough for me.
Hi there not trying to criticise any of your thought on right arm swinging. I don't know enough about the subject. I would like to try and incorporate it into my swing but my only concern is that adding 1# to my swinging proceedure of 2# follwed by 3# 4# would this not cause premature uncocking of the left wirist leading to a bent left wrist through impact. I am sure you will have a logical answer and be able to allay my fears in respect of this happening.
I was hitting 56 degree sand wedge shots about 80 yards earlier today. I just finished trying Deleware Golf's recommended procedure after reviewing his posts, the Evershed book and Tomasello video. I was was able to hit the same club 90 - 95 yards with better accuracy. A few keys from the Evershed video seemed to help. They are: (1) The left arm is inert; (2) Swing the right arm back, up and in, instantly and simultaneously (i.e., "on-plane", while (3) trying to keep the right arm straight (extensor action); (4) maintain the bent right wrist on the down swing while (5) executing a gentle "top spin forehand" motion and (6) allowing the right arm to swing forward, up and in to the Finish.
Trying this with a stiff left arm instead of an inert left arm is a loser. I also tried to just swing the "whole right arm" instead of thinking only of right tricep power and that seemed to work effectively.
I'm a believer, for I have been to the mountain top.
I've been working on this off/on for the last 4 months and it has finally clicked. I'm hitting the ball pure, long and without effort. All right forearm without any thought on pivoting or my body.
Here's a question:
Is Evershed's pattern different from Tomasello's??? How???
(They just emphasize different things, but the stroke is the same)...Mark just doesn't talk about uncocking the right elbow from the top like Tommy does...the elbow action is a natural move
DG
It seems like when I use Evershed's focal point (the bent right hand)my pattern is different from Tomasello's, but this could be me misunderstanding what he teaches... Is the "vertical drop" simply the uncocking of the right elbow?
When I put "my brain into my right hand" I really do get the feeling of hitting a topspin forehand (switty but still good), and my flight is lower.
When I follow the pattern that Tomasello presents in his video letter/lesson my pattern feels whippish with a higher more darting flight.
I can play good golf with either pattern, but I prefer my -PERCEPTION- of the Tommy T pattern.
I agree that Evershed is a great instructor and he definitely gives his student "knowledge." I understand why he was awarded teacher of the year.
Evershed: N/A porsche 911
Tomasello: Twin Turbo Porsche Carrera
Last edited by ChangeMySwing : 09-19-2006 at 08:55 PM.
I don't agree with you on the Mark Evershed topspin (he is not doing anything different than Tomasello during impact)...what you're calling topspin is impact swivel or what Hogan called supination..
By topspin, I mean that the swing feels similar to a tennis stroke, and not that it is faulty in anyway. It just feels different when I change my focus from my forearm to my right hand. I feel more lag pressure focusing on my right hand, but more speed and 'whippyness' when focusing on the right forearm...
I don't agree with you on the Mark Evershed topspin (he is not doing anything different than Tomasello during impact)...what you're calling topspin is impact swivel or what Hogan called supination...it's what turns a 5 iron into a 4 iron...Evershed hit's down on the ball like Tomasello...both are proceducing high penerating shots. Equal and opposite reaction...
In my 3-day school we worked on something similiar to the vertical drop...Tomasello called it swinging without power. He just wanted you to get the feel of the right forearm starting the downswing...having the right arm drop while the right elbow uncocked. very little driving action and speed...while at the same time getting a feel for what the pivot was doing. More distance...just increase the speed of the whole procedure...as Tommy would say...Wip It and Zip It. Or better yet, just Karate chop it with the right forearm...Study tape #2 of the Deitrick Letter series...
DG
DG - would you agree that Evershed is basically focused on a 'true' horizontal hinge motion? (his CCC) I like his visual of it from overhead, very much the 'feel' IMO to what a split grip drill shows, and IMO one of the areas Ballard was really getting at (even though I don't think he described it well).
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Calling UPS -- I Have a Right Forearm FW to Deliver.
Originally Posted by Delaware Golf
"With this "inline" relationship of loading and Right Forearm, it is absolutely MANDATORY that, Hitting or Swinging, it is the Right Forearm--not just the Right Hand and/or Clubshaft--that must be thrown, or driven, into impact per 7-2-3."
Let's forget the right arm swing, lets take it up another notch...DG swings the club according to TGM. Through the magic of the right forearm. A right arm approach to the game. At the highest level, it's the most efficient way to play the game. And after practicing and developing that approach, it totally makes sense.
DG
DG,
Excellent post, Dave and a great quote. I apprecitate your posting it. I like the mental image of the right forearm flying wedge being thrown (swinging) or driven (hitting) into impact. Are you you simply advocating delivery of the whole right forearm flying wedge into impact, with whatever procedure is used -- as opposed to trying to get everyone to be a "right arm swinger" as per 10-3-K?
For a swinger, the idea and mental picutre that the pivot is driving the right forearm flying wedge from the Top right through Impact and into Follow-through prevents the dreaded "trying to move your hands with your hands" and the right shoulder Over The Top and/or Flipping of the hands that usually result from that.
) on and off the course. I like it and it's effective, but not my style. When you are a natural hitter it's tempting to use right arm swinging. A pure longitudinal pull with the right forearm to the aiming point.
Hybrid Mode
