Over the top cure?

[Michael Finney]

What is it Mike?

An "inadequate weight transfer" is a golfer's sometimes futile attempt to get the ball to start more to the left because he has an OPEN CLUBFACE......

as root causes go, the OPEN CLUBFACE at separation is a blockbuster...and the cause of most of the "ungolflike" motions on the driving ranges near you.....but you already knew that, leo...didn't you?

[Weightshift]

When i use the 'right foot back' drill i don't come OTT - i'm thinking because i can see a nice big alley way from the top back down to the ball (i.e. right hip is not in the way). Is this still related to weightshift? i think my OTT is subconciously avoiding the elbow/hip collision because i'm definately not intending on doing it.

When i think about the pivot or weightshift however i tend to get to much swaying and leg drive going on....

You have to approach this problem in baby steps. Try the feet-together-drill with Pitching Wedge to Driver, then short chip shots with the irons, slowly increasing stance width. It's not something that's going to happen overnight

[tongzilla]

An "inadequate weight transfer" is a golfer's sometimes futile attempt to get the ball to start more to the left because he has an OPEN CLUBFACE......

as root causes go, the OPEN CLUBFACE at separation is a blockbuster...and the cause of most of the "ungolflike" motions on the driving ranges near you.....but you already knew that, leo...didn't you?

Thanks Mike...I get it. Seems like almost everything has to do with the clubface.

[Mathew]

You have to approach this problem in baby steps. Try the feet-together-drill with Pitching Wedge to Driver, then short chip shots with the irons, slowly increasing stance width. It's not something that's going to happen overnight

Hey weightshift

Some good thoughts there. Many people (teachers and students) have said how wonderful they hit the ball when their feet are together. I would like to expand on this drill with some thoughts to try and help him a little further, and what it concerns is that of moving the head - bobbing and swaying.

However people rely on their crutch of swaying and are thus lazy to fully pivot.... When they are told to keep a stationary head usually they don't pivot because it takes an effort, then golf instructors in their efforts to get results quick, tell them to move it back...etc etc.

Bobby Jones, Jack Nicklaus, Ben Hogan, Sam Snead...etc etc all emphasise it in their literature with the stationary head as the ideal. Jack Nicklaus called it golfs unarguable fundamental. It amazes me looking back when I was learning to play a bit when was a kid from books, that I would listen to a teacher like leadbetter and others over sources of the best players....

Weight shift is a result of the hip motion under the stationary head and its not a big huge thing. Good golfers can't lift their left foot off the ground for example....

[hg]

Hey weightshift

...Bobby Jones, Jack Nicklaus, Ben Hogan, Sam Snead...etc etc all emphasise it in their literature with the stationary head as the ideal. Jack Nicklaus called it golfs unarguable fundamental....
Weight shift is a result of the hip motion under the stationary head and its not a big huge thing. Good golfers can't lift their left foot off the ground for example....

A stationary head is an ideal... correct? Hogan's head was not fixed ...it moved a little back on the backswing and forward and down on the downswing transition. Maybe it was stationary relative to the rest of his body motion during the backswing to downswing transition.

[bts]

Hi all, firstly thanks for a great site...

I'm fighting an over the top move in my downswing (on video my right shoulder moves *out* ever so slightly instead of *down*). This is enough to cause a shank in the short irons or pulls

After reading around here i know that the right shoulder has to go down, what is the best way to train this when you've been used to it going out for so long (been playing with it 15 years or more i guess) (again it's only a small move maybe an inch or so)

Drills etc more than welcome !!

Thanks

You either "load and sustain the lag" or "move the right shoulder down", which is gonna "keep the right shoulder on-plane or down".

[Weightshift]

Hey weightshift

Some good thoughts there. Many people (teachers and students) have said how wonderful they hit the ball when their feet are together. I would like to expand on this drill with some thoughts to try and help him a little further, and what it concerns is that of moving the head - bobbing and swaying.

However people rely on their crutch of swaying and are thus lazy to fully pivot.... When they are told to keep a stationary head usually they don't pivot because it takes an effort, then golf instructors in their efforts to get results quick, tell them to move it back...etc etc.

Bobby Jones, Jack Nicklaus, Ben Hogan, Sam Snead...etc etc all emphasise it in their literature with the stationary head as the ideal. Jack Nicklaus called it golfs unarguable fundamental. It amazes me looking back when I was learning to play a bit when was a kid from books, that I would listen to a teacher like leadbetter and others over sources of the best players....

Weight shift is a result of the hip motion under the stationary head and its not a big huge thing. Good golfers can't lift their left foot off the ground for example....

Hi Mathew.
Yoda wrote (in another thread): "In my own case, unless I consciously monitor the situation -- which I rarely do -- I am totally unaware of the degree of Hip Slide. However, at one time I worked pretty hard on that Component and still do emphasize its 'parallel to the Plane Line' motion when I practice my Lag Loading via Downstroke Waggles. And here, there is enough lateral motion to transfer the Weight to the left side as the Body begins to Pull the Arms and Hands toward their Impact Locations."

[Mathew]

A stationary head is an ideal... correct? Hogan's head was not fixed ...it moved a little back on the backswing and forward and down on the downswing transition. Maybe it was stationary relative to the rest of his body motion during the backswing to downswing transition.

Many of the golf greats may or may not moved very very 'slightly' in certain slow mo pictures, but their intentions are towards the ideal are very clear and it certainly can be done. Many mistake the look of turning the head even though its still stationary as defined by a fixed point in space as the head as though it was moving backwards to the right. This is because the head is not shaped like a soccer ball...

Really all the golf stroke requires is some point on the top of the spine to stabilise the motion, yet the head is preferable because you can use your eyes to monitor if it has moved....there is no other point you can use that has anything that can match that advantage(ie point between the shoulders).

[Michael Finney]

Many of the golf greats may or may not moved very very 'slightly' in certain slow mo pictures, but their intentions are towards the ideal are very clear

How do you know what their intentions were?

And what is the ideal?

and it certainly can be done. Many mistake the look of turning the head even though its still stationary as defined by a fixed point in space as the head as though it was moving backwards to the right. This is because the head is not shaped like a soccer ball...

So, if the head were shaped like a soccer ball the perceived movement to the right would not exist...explain this to me.

Really all the golf stroke requires is some point on the top of the spine to stabilise the motion, yet the head is preferable because you can use your eyes to monitor if it has moved....there is no other point

Which particular point?...the base of the neck?

you can use that has anything that can match that advantage(ie point between the shoulders).

[Mathew]

How do you know what their intentions were?

And what is the ideal?

Jack Nicklaus - chapter 6 of Golf My Way - "I regard keeping the head very steady, if not absolutely stock still, throughout the swing as the bedrock fundamental of golf. It is inviolable as far as I'm concerned" - italics on "the" is his...

Ben Hogan - Chapter 5 Power Golf- "The body only coils. Your head doesn't move" when describing his backstroke mechanics on p53 and then on p68 describing a frame pre-impact - "The head is still stationary"...

Look at my signature on what Bobby Jones thought....

and thats just three great players... I got alot more quotes too but I think you get my point.

The ideal is to use your eyes inorder to detect any wrongful deviation in head location. There is no control for the point between the shoulders, which is why Homer Kelley didn't advocate it.

So, if the head were shaped like a soccer ball the perceived movement to the right would not exist...explain this to me.

Well think about it - if the head is in a fixed point in space and it turns slightly, how would it look to a camera face on....

Which particular point?...the base of the neck?

I prefer describing that point as the point between the shoulders - but close enough.