[grapegoat]

i will do the wall trick, i have done this before but the feeling i have had with this is the right wrist staying ontop of the left wrist. as for the plane as i have understud the plane needs to start up the plane of the shaft to hip high then up a slightly steeper plane through the shoulders onto the turned shoulder plane. the way John takes the club back is very similar to this and i have been wondering if i should try to emulate this of a slightly different model. any help has been greatly appreciated and i would love to have more input from others.