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Quote:

Originally Posted by cometgolfer (Post 51420)

Okie,

I see where your coming from on the ability to hit your irons from different planes. In fact in my post I should have said that I'm trying to get more from the elbow plane (and my low boring iron shots) to more of a turned shoulder plane..... thus the move up in my lie angle.

A couple of months ago I had become frustrated with not being able to fix my low hand "problem". My last set of irons (that I played for 3 or 4 years) were a set of Mizuno MP-29's. I took 3 of them to a local fitter and asked him to bend them up 4 to 5 degrees. Being pretty soft they bend easily, and my thought was "I'll find a way to hit these straight" (to golfgnomes point) and maybe that will work me out of the under-plane stuff. These irons had a dime-sized wear pattern just a smidge toward the heel and the fitter looks at me and says "you're SURE you want to bend these up 5 degrees? looks like you hit em pretty good now!"

They did provide a very different feel, but I still didn't have a good enough plan as far as swing changes needed to get me more on plane.

CG

You would definitely benefit from Jeffs comments IMO.
Get fitted:)

Quote:

Originally Posted by golfgnome (Post 51413)

Because we learn from results, ballflight will almost always be your determining factor in regards to equipment. With that being said, get fit NOW to where you want to be so that the ball flight will respond positively to your changes.

I have showed this at every one of Lynn's schools and I think everyone got it. You can make a "perfect golf swing" and the ball fly off line because of poor equipment. Your brain will never let you make that swing again because of this poor shot. Eventually you go back to the swing you were making, your teacher has to spend more time with you and you both become frustrated.

I use clubs to change motion in my students swing because it is much easier to learn from ball flight than anything else.

Jeff,

Many thanks for this. It confirms what I was thinking.

In your opinion is going from 1 degree flat to 3 degrees up too much to swallow at one time? I'm pretty well committed to staying with Pings and I suppose I could start by going to a new set that's 2 degrees more up from "red" and then get those bent again down the road another 1 or 2 degrees. Not sure I dare getting a Ping bent more than 2 degrees though.

Thanks again,

CG

Ya! Them Mizunos are industry flat, correcto? This is what Okie is sqealing about up in here. I feel that a playa ought to be able to move from one plane to another, as long as he knows he is moving there! So, if you fit for the turned shoulder plane does that not eliminate an on center strike from the elbow plane? Someone posted something about Hogan's 1 iron, or 2 iron I forgotchid which had a dime size wear spot towards the heel. That could be cause his clubface was open at impact and seperation, or his lie angle was a wee bit upright for his elbow plane. So I am trying to determine if it is a sane line of reasoning to suggest a lie angle range (perhaps the degree of cambering ought to be another key factor) If you are going to have your clubs fixed for one plane then it would seem that cambering would encourage the possibility of setting up elbow when you want turned shoulder, savvy? I need to read a Tom Wishon novel, or sumpin' I'm starting to talk like Bucket!:sad2:

Quote:

Originally Posted by golfgnome (Post 51413)

Your brain will never let you make that swing again because of this poor shot.

I don't think this applies to me, are lobotomies among your services offered?

Quote:

Originally Posted by golfgnome (Post 51413)

I guess I'm ok with this philosophy if both clubfitter and the person being fitted are crystal clear on the end goal and how to get there. I suspect I have neither. My clubfitter (the pro at my course) is not trying to improve my game by teaching technique (certainly not TGM) or using clubfitting to enourage change but rather trying to get my clubs correct for my current swing - good or bad.

That being said, I now have blades that are long by at least an inch over mizuno standard, 2 deg flat, and rather high in swingweight. What I would like to hear is an opinion if this has special considerations or things to avoid in TGM. For example....does it eliminate some of the more vertical plane angles? are certain release types not appropriate for long, heavy clubs? that kind of stuff.

TGM is such a large catalog and I am not discerning enough to know what is compatible and not compatible with my swing tendencies and my equipment.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3Putt (Post 51647)

My opionion has always been and will always be that the teacher should be the fitter and the fitter should be the teacher. The only exception to the rule would be if the teacher employed a fitter with a similar teacher philosophy (preferably TGM) so that they did have an end goal. I worked as such for Danny Elkins and Chris Asbell and actually became a better teacher and player because of this relationship.

I try to never comment on a player I have not seen, but if you give me your location we can help put you in touch with the proper AI fitters.