Re: The Sound Of...Compression
 

Ah yes, I neglected to mention the sound. I suppose that's why the gentleman beside me waited and watched me hit...he heard it too. I didn't become self conscious until someone walking by stopped to watch too.

And although I didn't get a chance to hit today, I'm still grinning from the experience... :D I can't wait to get to the course!!!

yes also i think he means dont move your hands independently from your pivot the pivot moves the hands to the aiming point and then the flail snaps the club down at the ball the feeling should be more of a centrifigal force with the weight of the club going into the ground like if you held the club really lightly it would fly out into the ground at the aiming point

Aiming Point -- Direct And Indirect
 

bantam,

You have referred to two different Aiming Points. Both accomplish the desired Impact Hand Location, one directly and the other indirectly.

The first is the direct approach and refers to Ben's use of the term 'Aiming Point' as it relates to the Hands. He has defined this as the Line of Sight through the Impact Hand Location to a point well in front of the Ball (and even the Left Foot). I have not personally talked with Ben about this, but I believe this Line of Sight could be further defined as that spot on the Plane Line where the Right Forearm points at Impact. This, in turn, defines the Right Forearm Angle of Approach,that relationship established at Impact Fix of the Right Forearm Flying Wedge to the Ball and to the Plane Line. It is this alignment that the Forearm must leave and then precisely return.

The second refers to the Aiming Point as defined in The Golfing Machine. This is the Aiming Point of the Thrust, usually the Ball (with a five-iron) or just slightly in front of it (shorter Clubs) or behind it (longer Clubs) unless the Ball is located further back (shorter Clubs) or further forward (longer Clubs).

The Aiming Point technique is mandatory for the control of the Snap Releases (which happen so fast it is impossible to actually monitor the Impact Hand Location). This Line of Thrust automatically drives the Hands toward their Impact Fix Location and is thus the indirect equivalent of the Impact Hands Location procedure.

What does Ben mean when he says 'Don't look at the shaft'? this is after the student has hit the tire and is holding their postion.

I believe Ben means at impact if you can look straight down the shaft line to the ball your right forearm has come in off plane (to high).

The View From The Back Of The Shaft
 

He actually says "Don't look DOWN the Shaft."

In this drill, Ben is teaching the correct Clubface Impact Alignments -- the Left Wrist is Flat, Level and Vertical -- and the 'Right' Timing of the Clubhead Thrust. The Primary Lever Assembly (Left Arm and Club) impacts the tire with the Left Wrist Level (not yet fully Uncocked) and on its way to Full Extension (Full Wrist Uncock). After Impact, the In-Line condition of the Left Arm Flying Wedge (2-K #2) is maintained as the Club abruptly stops and the tire speeds away. In other words, after the Flail's Angular Acceleration Phase (2-K #1), the Club is prevented from moving into its Momentum Phase (2-K #2) or its Deceleration Phase (2-K #3).

Accordingly, the Clubshaft has not yet 'passed the Hands', and you should therefore be looking at the back of the Shaft (which is perpendicular to the Line). If, instead, you are able to look down the top of the Shaft, it indicates that the Club is not at right angles to the Plane Line and that the Left Wrist is no longer Flat. It has passed the Hands -- geometric disaster -- the inevitable consequence of Throwaway and its Bent Left Wrist.

The flat left wrist and the "Golfers" flail!!!!!

I totally agree! A very good way of making a instuctionvideo. Cudos to the hacker. With all his problem to grasp and do right he forces Doyle to fraze himselves in different ways to express one thing. All the different things he says makes me really understand in a way I didn´t before.
Puh just 9800 strokes left.

Help!
 

I have trained with the impactbag and that feelt ok and good.
BUT yesterday on the range a totally disaster. Topping and the balls going low to the right all the time. Its like my hips are pushing the club out and my distance to the ball feels akward and wrong. I´m just doing a 30 degree pivot. And I start with a little hipslide. Also trying to pickup and deliver the right lower arm and club along the incline plane.
If I pivot faster and go for a vertical hinge the ball go straight but I want to stop the stroke in the impact position hmm.
Any help much appreciated.

Edit
Video closeup shows I´m shanking, hmm thats a new one for me. Used the search function and got a lot of advices.

Re: Help!
 

I am not capable of giving you a solid advice matching your description, but one thing came to mind:

I have learned is to not be bothered about the ballflight as you go through changes. A strong draw or hook might be an indication that you have gone from "quitting" to extending through impact. Impact bag exercise might do that. If so it is "just" a matter of upgrading the other components.

I'd start by hitting off grass, looking at the direction of the divot and take it from there.

These 3 videos are great. I'm a newbie, but after watching the videos I practiced the chipping and pitching for a couple of days and then full shots the next day. I've always had trouble with my short irons, but this seems to help my accuracy considerably.

I live in Northern California a little over an hour away from Carmel, so I scheduled an appointment with Ben in a couple of weeks to make sure I'm doing everything right.

Thanks again for all the great info you have here.
Scott

Scott,

It's painful to watch, but the teaching is spot on. Glad you have enjoyed the video. Ben will take you through a very similar routine when you see him.

Send him our best wishes for a great New Year from LBG.

Bagger

I didn't find it quite that painful to watch, but the student did seem a little stubborn regarding making chips and pitches rather than full shots.

I've watched the videos a few times now and I seem to pick up something each time. Hopefully I'll be down to just a couple of questions that I didn't understand from the video.

I sure will.

Scott

Pure gold. That voice. The mannerisms. Sends chills down my spine. Haven't had the privledge of meeting Ben. When I discovered TGM and heard about him, I called out to his "workshop/range" in California to order a practice video. Some guy answered the phone, I introduced myself, told him I'd discovered TGM, and wanted to buy one of Ben Doyle's practice videos.

This guy asks me how did I come to golf? How old was I? Did I enjoy the game? Was I able to play much? We start chatting and like, twenty minutes later--we're on to the weather, how much kids have changed, how busy and frenetic life's pace has become. Forty five minutes later, he says something like "I, I have to go teach now. I have a lesson to teach. And I really think you're going to enjoy your studies. You seem like a fine young man and I'm sure if you apply what's in my video you are really going to do well".

It was Ben the whole time. Kindly, encouraging, quirky, supportive and friendly as the day is long--to a total stranger. I'll never forget that conversation.

I just read one of Yoda's old posts on this thread about the sound real compression makes, it reminded me of a sound I heard many years ago. I was standing next to Tevino in Billings Montana, he was 100 yards from the green hitting a wedge and believe me it sounded like he had just busted a huge drive, I have commented on this hundreds of times and will never forget that sound. PURE MUSIC!!!!

Wow! I just joined and looked at this and a little of another and think I may have found a new home!
This is very very interesting stuff. I can not wait to try out some of this. Thanks for the cool site and what looks like a very informative furture in my golfing.

Welcome kr32!
 

Welcome aboard, kr32. Keep on lookin' and keep on postin'. And ask questions along the way. You've got a lot of new friends here who want to help!

Thanks!
I was watching Ben Doyle and Tom Tomasello yesterday and was very amazed as to how easy they make it sound, just wish it was in real life, at least for me anyway.
I have trouble with over the top move and think it is because of me trying to clear my left hip way too early like the videos were saying, makes sense too. Have to work on getting the arms to come back down first and just let the hips clear by themselves.
The rope was a nice lesson as well. A friend had told me about the rope before too but I never understood it till I watched it.
Is that the same "rope" that Martin Green talks about?

Ben Doyle Video
 

thoroughly enjoyed it,i felt the students pain.what does ben mean about the "tail of the dog"?

The tale of the dog
 

Ben uses this analogy very frequently. If you have a lesson with him, it will likely come up if you need some pivot work.

He is refering to hip, knee, and foot action.

Imaging you have a large dog between your legs. During the backswing you are holding him there to keep him from running away. On the downswing, you release the dog and then through impact you catch the dogs tail with your legs.

Bagger

Question about the chipping drill
 

Hi,
New member here. Enjoying the site and waiting for the book to arrive. I think there is a lot of good info here. In the first video when he is doing the chipping/pitching drill to get the proper feel of impact, what club is he using? Wedge? Seven iron? Also, when I have done this drill I am amazed at the crisp contact it imparts on the ball. How does one incorporate this small chipping motion that results in proper contact in to full swing?

Thanks

Bmc:

Welcome to the forum...the point of the small chips/pitches like taking baby steps. You crawl, before walk...walk befoe run, etc, etc. Homer Kelly truly believed that one could more closely monitor the correct feelings when doing short shots (Basic Motion) first. As you can do this consistently, you then progress to Pitches (Acquired Motion). Often times, we want to try and make our 'new motion' by doing full swings at full speed. As I have come to know, the more I engrain the feeling and motions in these short shots, it begins to become more automatic in the longer swings. As soon as you start to lose the proper feelings in the longer swings, go back to the shorter motions...much easier to monitor!

FL-John

Hi,

Being lurking for a while, this is a terrific site!
The lesson video made me realized that I'm a flipper. Time to incorporate the lesson learned, FLW/BRW. I bought the yellow book long time ago, but not be able to decipher. Hopefully, with the info on this forum, I can make progress in learning this great game!

One obsevation I have regarding the video lesson:
The student in this video lesson seems to not bending from the hip in contrast to Ben. This may cause him not be able to apply core muscle more effectively.

Hi , Welcome .

There is tons of knowlegeable good people in this site.

Ben Doyle is teaching Pivot powered stroke. Aka using the core for the extra Uhmp. The Towel swinging drill using the core is THE way to learn it.

Read 5-0 last paragraph.

Hand controlled Pivot: I suggest study Tom Tommasello 3 parts video letter .

And you will notice a different way of doing it, all valid way, but no perfect way only preferences.

Mr. Doyle teaches that the hands are still in control, everything is monitored through the hands.

Don't be afraid of training your pivot, because of "pivot controlled hands".

Good Point.

Zones 1 and 2 have to be trained along with zone 3. The pivot has to be trained. If a person doesn't train the pivot, you are likely to see somebody moving the arms from the shoulder joint independently and not using a pivot at all or very little pivot.

Its true . Zone 3 can only be as good as Zone 1, Pivot wise and Balance wise, and both Zones can be utilised, like a very high performance 3 barrel 4 barrel.

The reason I am pointing him there is because without forgeting the Powering of Zone 1 . Understanding Hand controlled pivot becomes very difficult. Anyway, what I believe and experienced, an AI direct demonstration is required to appreciate this , especially we come from a world of Pivot controlled hands. Maybe doesn't sound really Important to understand this, but to me its a really important key in consistent execution.

By powering the Pivot , in a general point of view , you are still doing a Pivot Controlled hand. Of course it is believed that you can use BOTH Eventually , like a 4 barrel eventually, Like a high performance snap loading/release eventually, but some of these advanced technique are difficult to master, I haven't. read 5-0 carefully.

Zone 1 and 2 still NEED to be trained nonetheless. Seperately . But not consiously "powered" thats my understanding. At least when starting to learn TGM.