Lengthening the 'Trail' Arm Through Impact
 

It is Axis Tilt (accomplished with Hip Slide in the Start Down) -- not Clubface Manipulation -- that brings the 'Trail' Shoulder down and On Plane. In turn, it is this On Plane Trail Shoulder that gives the player sufficient 'Trail' Arm, i.e., Elbow Bend, to manifest an On Plane Trail Forearm at Impact. So, for the Trail Arm to be On Plane at Address, there must be Axis Tilt. In his book, Power Golf, Ben Hogan had this to say:

"At the address there is no straightening of the right elbow. In order that the right arm will be limp and the right elbow down, one must list slightly from the right side. By list I meant that the right shoulder must be dropped and the hips faced slightly to the left."

We are saying the same thing: In order that there be sufficient Elbow Bend for an On Plane Trail Forearm, the Shoulder must be down and back (On Plane). And that is a function of the Hip Turn (assuming a Slide and its Weight Shift). That is why you see all good players with their trail Forearms On Plane through Impact, even though those same Forearms may not have been On Plane at Address.

By the way, isn't is nice that we have a TGM language where everybody understands that Right Forearm means 'trail' Forearm? :)

I could barely type the words!

Where are the pictures?
 

Did something happen to the pictures, or is it my computer?

Here you go...

I can't see the pics either. Strange.
Alex

Appleby at Mercede's
 

The tour's model hitter, sure hit it good last night at the Mercede's. One thing I noticed he uses a lot more of a vertical hinge action on short wedge shots.

Sorting Through the Duffer's Bible.

B-Ray

vert. hinging
 

The conditions on Tour tend to require it: high rough, tucked flags, hard greens, and fast greens. Throw a little horizontal hinge action on one and a spectator might have to stop it.

I definitely saw some short shots by Appleby at the Mercedes that bordered on vertical hinging. I have always really liked Appleby's stroke because of his great alignments. Anybody know why he isn't winning more on tour? Is his short game holding him back?

I also saw him at the 2004 PGA Championship at Whistling Straits. I remember he was in a fairway bunker on the front nine and was agitated about the high lip. He had maybe a dozen spectators around him, including myself. He hit it, it clipped the lip, somehow got out into the fairway, and ran up to about 15 feet. Crowd goes wild. It was about 2 inches from staying in the bunker, that's for sure. Hope he has a good season this year.

as,

I also can not see the pictures. I was able to do so before.

ldeit

Annikan, Yoda, Ted:

Why do you guys believe that Appleby is a Hitter and not a Swinger who Paddlewheels? It looks like he uses 10-5-A and has the body rotation of a Swinger.

Appleby, hitter or swinger?
 

10-5-A is recommended for hitting as found in 12-1-0. He's using 10-10-C (angled hinging), which is also recommended for hitting but does not solely differentiate whether or not he's hitting. As far as 10-19-A (drive loading/hitting) versus 10-19-C (drag loading/swinging), you'd have to ask him. He's using 10-3-A (punch) instead of 10-3-B (pitch). His assembly point is 10-21-A (top) instead of 10-21-C (end). And he's using 10-22-B (random sweep) instead of 10-22-C (snap). His power package delivery path is 10-23-A (straight line) instead of 10-23-C (top arc and straight line).
If he's not hitting, he certainly missed a good opportunity. :)
See 6-H-0 and 7-19.

Nice breakdown. Thanks Ted.

12-2 more Powerful than 12-1
 

Yoda,

Hence my conclusion that a Maximum Power Stroke (2-M-2) for the Basic Swinging Pattern (12-2) will hit the Ball further than the Basic Hitting Pattern (12-1), everything else being equal.

Do you see the logic of my conclusion, and do you think it's well founded?

Posterchild for angled hinging
 

Congrats to Apples
Third Mercedes in a row......=D>

This is what angled hinging looks like at follow through (both arms straight)

Best Alignments on Tour?
 

Thom you rock!

Boys this is what you need to study! Look at the Right Forearm Flying Wedge! Structure still maintained via the LEVEL right Wrist. Paddle-Wheel Motion . . . Coconut Lotion . . . had to dis my girl cuz you got too emotional. Clubhead still BEHIND and BELOW he hands. He got the DOWN Dimension fo' shizzle. Check out the FLAT UNCOCKED LEFT WRIST Vertical to the Inclined Plane i.e. Angled Hinge Action. Do you think that Plane Line got Obliterated? Looks like somebody chucked a grenade in there!

How good is this guy! I watched him hitting some chips lastnight his Basic Motion is a great study too.

Thanks for the pic Thom . . . definitely worth at least 1000 words . . . or 7 editions!

Make this your computer's wallpaper. Awesome!

Plays a Draw, Too!???
 

Interesting that he appears to hit and uses angled hinging, but plays a draw according to the ESPN announcers. At address he doesn't look as if he has the club face closed down either. Any comments from the LBG hitting elite?

I have several pics of Appleby Hitting and yes I agree they are pretty awesome. Great alignments and something that we can all learn from.
Wonder how he decides which of the 3 Mercedes he has won to drive every day? Must be such a hard life :D
Alex

Hooking with Angled Hinge
 

I wouldn't say I'm elite but...

It is very possible to use the Hitter's Angled Hinge and still produce a Draw. Just make sure the Clubface is Closed enough relative to the Clubhead Line of Flight (Clubhead Path) at Impact. It is this divergence that produces sidespin. The Clubface contacts the Ball's outside-aft quadrant and voila -- we have a Draw. However, note that Lag Pressure or Thrust continues to drive the Clubhead through the inside-aft quadrant of the Ball. ;)

You didnt. Did you?

You KILLED me for this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thank God lefty stayed the course!!!!!:cool:

I respectfully must disagree with most of this thread. Not to create any issues, but in my humble opinion....Appleby is a swinger. I will take a few days to show my point - and to make sure no one takes this the wrong way...it is not driven by ego, rather, by what is hitting/swinging...

Patrick

Ok...to back myself up.

http://www.golfonline.com/golfonline...4482%2C00.html

Standard Address with bent left wrist.
No preturned hip - and swinging motion on backswing.
Top.
Right forearm inline with - not opposed to.
Instant Acceleration Hip Action.
Sequenced Release.

Most importantly - Frame 10. Shaft is bowing TOWARDS the target - wouldnt happen if he was hitting and thrust were continuing to be applied, no? I cannot see the bow of the shaft at transition - so need to go on this (though his right forearm is in no way a position to push).

Frame 12, full roll of horizontal hinging. With a driver. Not a wedge.

Uh oh.....I'm in trouble now!

1-d Tgm
 

Hi Patrick,

I know the debate is centered on Appleby being a "Hitting Pin Up".

I think that your analysis on the url you provided is absolutely spot on.

That said, the analysis provided by the other forum faithful with regards to Apples is correct also, because it is evident that he in fact was hitting in the sequence provided by Mr David Orr a.k.a Annikan Skywalker.

I think many of us are one dimensional in playing. That is to say the vast majority of us can only swing or hit, but not both.

And because of this, we sometimes fail to remember that the pros we study are different fishes altogether, thus we tend to categorise them into "swinger" or "hitter" exclusively.

Personally, I am a 3 Barrel Swinger as well as a 4 Barrel Hitter.

Per the Preface: "Hitting and Swinging seem equally efficient. The difference is in the players. If strong - Hit. If quick - Swing. If both - do either. Or both."

A sizeable number of pros i.e Mr Eldrick Woods fall into the "both" category as does Mr. Appleby.

On hindsight, referencing your posts, a better name for the thread would be "Classic Hitting / Swinging Exhibition".
Just a suggestion...;)

Comda,
Thank you for your elegant and mostly, insightful post. Sometimes, when one (ok - me!), looks through starry eye'd glasses, we (again, caught myself - I!) see what I want to....

Thank you for reminding me there is more then meets the eye!!!


And...I believe we are the only two to mention swinging in 6 threads of this post! (uh oh - I'm in trouble again)...

:):):)

From page 1 ;)

If this isn't a hitting motion...then I just don't know hitting.....Yes...we are seeing angled hinging ...but as a result of "drive out of the paddlewheel motion of the right forearm flying wedge"...NOT Throw out of the Left Arm flying wedge via the blast off of the Pivot!!!!\

BTW both arms are Not straight...left arm is cracked....
ASS

I agree. Stuart is probably able to do both. Looks like he swings with the driver and longer clubs and hits with the mid and short irons. Although it looks like his swing has changed somewhat- he is more compact and seems to hit a lot more of the time. Just my .02!

Mike

Apples waggle
 

Another indication of Appleby's hitting, is his waggles.
He'll bend and straighten his right elbow = driving the shaft.

Late Again...
 

Dr. O,

I'm horning in late again, but how could anybody look at this picture and not see textbook hitting? Ball above feet, club choked down to compensate and angled hinged to hold the shot off the slope, bent left arm (if it was pulling, it would be more extended), and of course the paddlewheel DRIVE out of the right forearm...it's a HIT!!!

EC

Appleby Driver
 

Does anyone have a sequence with Appleby hitting a driver??

I think it would be interesting to see in contrast to the sequence posted in this thread. I have seen pics of Appleby hitting driver recently, and although I don't have any to post. I do believe he is still hitting, however he does take driver to end instead of top.

Sorting through the Instructor's Textbook.

B-Ray

The 3 Musketeers...
 

Join us Edz...The 3 Musketeers...

Annikan...

No disrespect, you'r my boy. But in all seriousness - if you, or anyone - can tell hitting via a posed shot at the end of the sequence, well.......

I dont agree.

Look back at your Elkington photo's....at the end - via vertical hinging - his face is WIDE open. So...:)
EC,
For those that don't know - EC is one of my mentors. One, among two, who took my under his wing. And, in my opinion, is a knowledgable and brilliant as anyone....especially when it comes too TGM. As a devil's advocate, I am compelled to give my take....

Not relevant.

Not relevant.
Swingers can do the same - see Tiger hitting a flop with vertical hinging.
Hmmm.....do we know the original lie? Situation?

I, and you, can get in the same position swinging, no????
Gentlemen,
I must disagree. I posted an entire motion - after what, 6 or 7 pages of reading that Appleby was a 'textbook' hitter. And here - I must disagree. I do not, and would not advocate, surmising that a player is a hitter or swinger based upon one photo.

Thats my stance and I am sticking by it. I realize I am the only one to stand up on this - and thats ok.....

Could I prove it in a court of law? No.

Thank God this isnt a court of law and its TGM.

-Patrick

Bommelum - didn't anyone notice

Ok Philly,

We can infer that it's more likely to be Hitting than Swinging, given the limited information we have.

I think that's a fair statement, no?

Philly..I know we're friends...You're entitled to your opinion...

Hey folks,

Stewie can give us clues, but only he really knows whether he is hitting or swinging. But isn't this fun and educational?
I believe Mr Kelley once stated he didn't like looking at swings because they all looked different, he was speaking about Nicklaus at the time and saw a swing and Mr. Kelley said he didn't think that was Jack's normal swing. We have no idea what any player is attempting do on the majority of the swings and pictures we see.

But as I said above it is great for educational purposes for the forum to discuss and debate all these great components and to hear everyone's educated opinions.

Keep up the great work!

Todd

You got it!
 

I think it's an amazing thing to have such a place where these types of conversations are possible. The Apple is obviously an amazing specimen for all of us to dissect. And, I think he has an immense amount of components that we'd all like to emulate. We can all agree that he's got something right. :)

the waggle
 

That's a TGM waggle if I've ever seen one. He's got the flying wedges as good as anyone.

Philly's Got a Good Point....
 

Patrick,

S. Alito would have trouble supporting my argument, but I must confess that my conclusion came in the form of "connecting the dots", if you will. My computer looks at the situation at hand and spits out the best pattern with the most likely highest % of success based on having seen and performed this shot many, many times. Additionally, I have followed S.A. around Augusta's hilly terrain on more than one occassion, and I can tell you that his predominate pattern is hitting, whether he knows it or not. The components do not lie.

EC

Yes Sir...my only point (playing Devil's Advocate) is...perhaps, at times, he may be swinging.

And my opinion....like others....is like.....:)

EC,
I believe you mean J. (as in Judge) Alito. And I understand your point - and do not oppose it.


Gentlemen - please do not let my opposition stop this thread - there is much to be learned and gained from it.

As previously stated by one with much more intellegence than me: "It is better to debate a question without settling it than to settle a question without debating it." -Joubert

:)

PC,

Samuel Alito...da judge.

EC

Yoda's swing vs. hit
 

Take a look at some of the vid's of Yoda swinging vs. hiting. It's really hard to tell the difference UNLESS you know what to look for.

The only difference I see in Yoda's video's is when he's swinging his clubhead lags a bit during the startup. Other than that, I have a hard time telling the difference in his motion.