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The hands don't necessarily be directly below the shoulders for the shoulders to move on a vertical plane. The only necessity for the shoulders to move vertical is to have the upper spine horizontal to the ground. The arms then could hang below, inside, or outside and the putter would straight back and through.

The feeling of coiling or turning the shoulders does not carry into putting because the plane angle is more vertical than with a longer club. So the shoulders are moving back up and in, but on a steeper plane and the feeling becomes more of rocking. But don't putt by rocking the shoudlers, just practice moving the shoulders in plane at home.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yoda (Post 35708)

The Arm Action Only Putting Pattern of the 3rd Edition (12-5-0 / 3rd edition) gives us insights into Homer Kelley's idea of the "orthodox" Putting Pattern. In his own words, it has been "carefully assembled;" there should be no attempt at "personalization" until it has been "thoroughly mastered as written;" and then "only with Authorized Assistance."

And while the Push Basic Stroke most certainly can use the Elbow Plane, that Variation (10-6-A) was not specified.

What gives?

:confused1

The Left Shoulder Plane of the 3rd Edition is established by the Zero #3 Accumulator Angle (Club in the cup of the Left Hand). Later editions referenced the "theoretical" Left Shoulder Plane but recommended that it is "far better" to consider it as Zero #3 Accumulator (7-13).

Finally, the Hinge Action Variation is Vertical Only (10-10-B) and not Dual Vertical (10-10-E). With Vertical Only Hinge Action, the Clubhead Covers the Plane Line, i.e., it remains in the Vertical Plane. This is compatible with the Zero Shift Left Shoulder Plane only because of the 3rd edition's definition of Vertical Hinging: "The Clubshaft is normally 'mounted' at an angle to the Hinge so that the Hands and Clubhead travel on parallel vertical planes." With Dual Vertical, the Clubhead Traces the Plane Line, i.e., it moves Three-Dimensionally Up, Back and In on the Inclined Plane.

With this Pattern, then, the Putting Arc will not work. That's because the Pattern presumes a Vertical Plane of Motion of the Clubhead and the Putting Arc presumes an Inclined Plane of Motion.

Summarizing, this Pattern requires that we use:

1. The Push Major Basic Stroke;

2. The Putt Minor Basic Stroke (motionless Right Shoulder);

3. The Left Shoulder Plane Angle (Zero #3 Accumulator);

4. Zero Shift (to or from the Elbow Plane); and

5. Vertical Only Hinging (with the Hands and Clubhead moving on parallel vertical planes).

How can this be done?

Geometrically, there is only one way:

First, position the Right Forearm parallel to the Plane Line. Then, use Push Basic Stroke -- keeping the Hands between the Right Elbow and the Ball -- to move it precisely along the line that it is positioned. The Right Shoulder will remain motionless; Hinge Action will automatically be Vertical Only; and there will be Zero Shift from the Left Shoulder Plane.

Players wishing to use Angled Hinging and the Elbow Plane need only position the Right Forearm to point at the Plane Line (and not parallel to it). Then, use Push Basic Stroke to Drive the Right Forearm along the line it is positioned, i.e., toward the Plane Line. Ergo...automatic Angled Hinging on the Elbow Plane.

And with this Customized Pattern, the Putting Arc works.

:)

I recall the story of a young grasshopper like Yoda asking his master about the relative merits of vertical hinging vs angled in regard to putting. If I have my story straight I believe Homer was non committal to say the least and the grasshopper was left somewhat mystified, once again.

I now find myself at the same place and with the same question, Yoda. With you now cast as Master and me playing the grasshopper, I expect the same answer but have to ask it anyways.

For putting, Is angled hinging not superior to vertical in that there is now three dimensional impact and less associated clubface layback? Is vertical hinging not steering or a even a cut shot procedure? A reverse roll feeling?

There may be some associated green firmness considerations. Homer putted a well worn, fast and firm rug in his garage I think.

Im trying to convert to a one accumulator right arm method and sorting through this great old thread. In getting rid of any remnant of the rocking triangle theory I can find, I have turned my focus now to putting. Geez I think I read, forgot but internalized that book by Ballard in the 70's and its disasterous results are only now working there way out of my golfing system. Like a thousand year old egg gone rotten (back to my Kung Fu motif)

Thank you Master.

O.B.

Mistaken Identity

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.B.Left (Post 51792)

For putting, Is angled hinging not superior to vertical in that there is now three dimensional impact and less associated clubface layback? Is vertical hinging not steering or a even a cut shot procedure? A reverse roll feeling?

There may be some associated green firmness considerations. Homer putted a well worn, fast and firm rug in his garage I think.

Correctly executed, all Hinge Actions -- Horizontal, Angled and Vertical -- are equally accurate. As you have suggested, there will be some distance considerations: Any Clubhead Layback will cause the Ball to travel a shorter distance with a given amount of Lag Pressure.

Regarding Three-Dimensional Impact, you are confusing the identities of two different Components; namely, the Inclined Plane (Clubshaft Control) and Hinge Action (Clubface Control). Each of the three Hinge Actions -- Clubface Closing Only, Closing with Layback and Layback Only -- can be (and ideally should be) executed on the Inclined Plane. In so doing, each Hinge Action is executed within a Three-Dimensional Clubhead Orbit: Downward (Attack Angle), Outward (Plane Angle) and Forward (Approach Angle) [2-C-0].

Alternatively, each of the three Hinge Actions can be executed in a Vertical Plane. This is accomplished by simply ignoring the Inclined Plane and covering the Line with the Clubhead. This removes the Outward component and produces a Two-Dimensional Motion (Downward and Forward). Obviously, this action can be accomplished only in the shortest shots.

And, yes, Vertical Hinging is Steering. However, done correctly and for a purpose, it is a valuable tool for the accomplished player. This controlled Steering is executed with a 'Reverse Roll' Feel (clockwise motion of the Left Hand through Impact, i.e., "holding off") and produces higher, softer shots (with Putts, less distance). Finally, as defined by The Golfing Machine, any stroke utilizing Vertical Hinge Action is labeled a Cut Shot (2-C-2).

:golfcart2:

Thank you Yoda

I wont press you for your personal preference in regard to the inclined plane vs the vertical plane. It would seem un Homer like and I respect that.

Though I personally put the arc I have been humbled by many a straight back, straight through type. To each his own.

O.B.

Vertical Hinging -- Caveat Emptor

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.B.Left (Post 51798)

I wont press you for your personal preference in regard to the inclined plane vs the vertical plane. It would seem un Homer like and I respect that.

I have already stated my preference above:

Each of the three Hinge Actions -- Clubface Closing Only, Closing with Layback and Layback Only -- can be (and ideally should be) executed on the Inclined Plane. In so doing, each Hinge Action is executed within a Three-Dimensional Clubhead Orbit: Downward (Attack Angle), Outward (Plane Angle) and Forward (Approach Angle) [2-C-0].

Remember, Angled Hinging on the steeper Planes approaches Vertical Hinging (and on the flatter Planes approaches Horizontal Hinging). Also, it is simpler to execute (no deliberate 'Reverse Roll' manipulation). Finally, Vertical Hinging encourages the average golfer to Steer, the #1 Snare in the game. For those reasons, Homer Kelley himself much preferred Angled Hinging to Vertical Hinging, even on short shots. In his own words: "I am no fan of Vertical Hinging."

Of course, Homer recognized its specific applications and encouraged their use by skilled players. Also, he felt it important that golfers learn all three Hinge Actions in order to be able to differentiate their respective Mechanics and Feels.

:salut:

I may be wrong but in your original post I thought you were maintaining that Homer's view of "orthodox" putting included a vertical plane of motion, the clubhead covering the line and vertical only hinging.

If this is correct and given his own personal preference for angled why would he suggest vertical and covering the line etc as the starting place for the development of the putting pattern?

Perhaps I am confused? The great thing about this forum is that no matter how dumb the question the answer often contains some significant insight. I had for instance, never appreciated how angled hinging approaches vertical hinging as the plane angle steepens. "Mind blowing" as we used to say.

Quote:

Originally Posted by vj (Post 9514)

The shoulder only stroke utilizes the turning of the shoulders on an incline plane. As with all strokes the hands educate the pivot so tracing a staight plane line, moving the putter head along a plane board (angle) or using a curved device (putting arc) will teach the shoulders to move on an incline plane. The right shoulder must move on plane to keep the putter head moving on plane during the shoulder only stroke.

VJ,

I have a Putting Arc (purchased about 3 months ago) and use a Shoulder Only stroke. I was surprised that you also mention using a plane board - are you referring to a 2x4, for example? If a 2x4 is used, then isn't that a "vertical arc" or a straight line? Are you suggesting that a plane board and the Putting Arc are equivalent training tools? (I don't expect so, otherwise why would you have invented the Putting Arc.) Please help.

I have seen some teachers (e.g., Pelz) recommend the straight-bask-straight-through stroke. Would you agree that this would require Vertical Hinging?

Thanks.
Bill