Too much to ask Yoda/Yodasluke
 

Would it be possible for you to give a brief breakdown (point form is fine) what you would tell a hitter to do to be successful (ie. how to take your grip, set up, backswing, weighttransfer, downswing, through swing). There are so many idiosyncrasies to hitting that differ from swinging (ie. hip slide on downswing) it's easy to take the pieces you get and become a switter. Layman's terms would be ideal. Thank you.

Unfortunately, don't have the little yellow book, plus I was hoping to hear what they tell the students that come to see them ( I am assuming that they use a different vocabulary than when they are talking to fellow TGM devotees.

Bendet2 I am not singling you or anyone out with my remarks. This is a general observation of past experiences from past posts.

It is a shame some have no interest in buying, owning, or reading The Golfing Machine. Many say the book is a complicated read and I can agree with that early impression, which I believe this is the reason some don’t buy or/and read it. This stigma that it has some unworldly vernacular that takes years of practice to understand is getting old.
Homer in his GENIUS assigned one meaning to a word so everyone knows exactly what is being discussed. No confusion. Homer said that the terms have a fixed relationship with each other and when understood will tie them all together to see the big picture- Homer’s big picture. Heck, the lingo that bathes computers is far more complicated than anything Mr. Kelley borrowed from Mr. Webster. And I don’t hear people nagging the industry about that. College text books, vocational manuals, a hobby interest, or even Irish authors, each have a vocabulary of their own. This is no different.
I know from experience that Lynn is solid on teaching what Homer wrote the way Homer wrote it. Homer told Lynn’s class, “The only thing I ask and I think this is absolutely imperative that you stick to the terminology. Explain it with any number of words that you have but don’t replace it with those words.”
The vernacular is the Genius. And easier to understand than Joyce.

Re: Simple Yet
 

funny you bring up 1-B Simplicity DG- I have been in the process of writing something about this. Talk about busting my bubble - hahaha

I agree with not over-simplifying...but surely it wouldn't hurt to give him a brief overview in layman's terms.

That's his choice...if he still doesn't get it then he can get the book, no?

I have been around TGM longer than you I think Bendet (been at it about- we'll say- a little over half a year)...I think?!...ur new basically right?

So keep in mind that I have had to sort out all this TGM stuff too...but now I understand it (most of it! lol...there's lots)...and it's great...wouldn't do it any other way. What more could you ask for than a pretty damn good understanding of the golf swing, right?...most people never come close to knowing much of anything useful or connected in any way...maybe some fundamental things, sensations, observations. A few tips here and there.

And BTW you CAN put this stuff to use. Anyone who raves that you are gonna fill your head with crap never got to the point where they fully sorted out the info. that was handed to them...it takes a while to sort out but c'mon- do it right. All this is is a guidebook for tweaking and developing a swing properly. Once you get the knowledge, you groove it in and put it to work like any other swing...the difference is that when it's fully functional you know why. When it's broken- you know why.

I've gone through times of confusion with and w/o TGM...but with TGM I know there is always light at the end of the tunnel...and that the tunnel is more or less straight(ish- straightish :wink:)...and that I'll learn a hell of a lot (that I can actually put to use) along the way.

Not running in circles anymore.

I can see nothing but positives with this. The only "if", as far as I'm concerned, is if you want to sort through it or not. It's worth it though. 100%.

Birdie Man
 

Well said Birdie Man
By the way, I like your Jimmy Hendrix photo! I once played golf with Jimmy's brother Leon, after the round I needed a ride- so we hopped in his 1960 Chevy Van and drove off in the sunset- while Leon relaxed with his substance of choice.

Brief breakdown
 

Hi Bendet2, Go to the Gallery and watch Ted Fort hit and study the pics and Yoda's narrative. See an AI ASAP. They can instruct in real-world terms OR TGM terms. Difficult to go it alone. Oh yeah---buy the book.
Have a good one, pshr

Wow, I seemed to have touched a nerve here. First off, I love Lynn's and Brian's and Chuck's forums and what they are trying to do, i.e. helping people play better golf. I also hate when these threads degenerate into mud slinging affairs. In another post Ted Fort wrote something to the effect that he is the "king of Anologies", why would an instructor say that, probably because he found that there is a difference between information and knowledge and that for some students he had to use different vocabulary to teach them. Now to keep this from getting too personal, thanks for the useful feedback all, a simple "You really should buy the book because, it's great" would have sufficed (I have ordered it). Thanks again for the constructive feedback.

But would it be as clear as to why you should buy the book? We all tried to explain beyond the “just get the book”rant.

Ted and all other AIs use many different words and drills and gadgets (if they like) to explain Golfing Machine concepts, but as Homer asked for, in the end, the terms cannot be replaced. That would cloud the fog lifting. It pays to stick with ones that are second nature and add as you know more.

Bendet,
Don't take those replies that personally.... I think we all have the same initial impression (at least those of us who aren't inclined towards physics and geometry... or overly analytic)... the book requires some work to get through AND that work takes some initial investment in time. However, anyone who has gone through much "traditional" instruction will quickly recognize the truth in what Homer had to say about simplicity. I have had lessons from some well known teachers and I was never able to reconcile the differences in both language and actual instruction I recieved. I got the book about 7 months ago and it took about 2 months of reading in the recommended fashion and referring to it for it to make sense. I was fortunate to spend 4 hours with Ted Fort right after that and he could explain concepts I was familiar with from the book, but didn't really understand.... this helped a great deal, not to mention that Ted is a great gentleman and a fine teacher. Finally, the forum gets me a step closer each day. TGM is beautifully consistent and it works. But the golf swing is not a simple, intuitive motion so it becomes very hard to summarize accurately. The further I get into this, the more I realize there is no 'classic comic book' approach to the golf swing. Do it right....read the book, see an AI if possible and follow along with the forum.

Having said that, I'm a new hitter.... and after 6 months of hitting I find the following areas to be the places I consistently have to work on.
1. Impact fix.... you'd think something like address would be pretty easy to make a habit, but I'm constantly slipping and getting my right forearm too high ....Monday I had 15 gir, tues. I had 9.... impact fix was the issue.
2. Going to top and not end. This is a sure 'fore left' for me, as the right shoulder starts to spin out on the downswing if I go to end.
3. Accelerating too fast at the start of the downswing.... I keep trying to see Ted's gradually accelerating swing before I swing(btw...someone mentioned Ted's dartfish analysis and the notes by Yoda are very helpful alongside the stills in that analysis)

Additionally, I need to keep working on my impact alignments..... Keeping the shafts forward lean until past low point. I do the impact bag drills and the dowel drills.

Trust me, TGM will work for every golfer, a claim that 'traditional' instruction would have trouble making. It is a journey and while it may seem to be a long journey at times, it will get you to your destination. Read the book, stick to it and try to avoid short cuts, it only makes it harder.....2 steps forward, one step back and we get there.

Dazzling
 

I'm really proud to be a part of this membership. This thread could have turned south in a heartbeat, like so many other forums. I was initially concerned that we were going to "turn off" someone that is dipping their toe in the TGM waters but you guys pulled through. It's a fine line sometimes. :D

Lynn's computer has been down since returning from Destin, but I'm sure he and Ted will be responding soon Bendet.

Thanks,

Bagger

Toolkit and craft
 

Dear fellows - professionals and people like me,

Reading this thread reminds me of how I approached the numerous engineering courses at the university.

In the same way as TGM each course had a steep learning curve with new terminologi and some degree of complexity.

And in the same way as TGM - the fog started to lift as soon as we got some of the terminologi and eqations under the skin.

And in the same way as TGM everything was somehow connected to everything else.

And in the same way as with TGM - eventually we vere able to understand most of the textbook.

But an understanding based on reading just wasn't enough. It was something very different to apply the stuff in actual problem solving. Working with solving "tasks" (I don't remember the proper english word for it) was for me the only way to truly understand advanced mathematical and technological topics. The answers to the exams were never in the textbook. The tools necessary to provide an answer was. But the hard part was learning to apply the toolkit!

The TGM seems to be an exellent toolkit. I've read every page more than once, and I understand most of the sentences in the book. I've never studied a book where every sentence, every word is written with such care and thoroughness as this one. The book just keeps growing on me! But just reading and reflecting isn't enough preparation for real world application!

I think some of us in this exellent forum need som real problems to chew on- followed by "correct" answers to benchmark against. So I kindly ask the LBG staff to consider a "weekly case" where a video of someone doing something in their stroke is accompanied by some questions for us to chew on - and you guys tells us how you proceeded with the lesson(s) or analysis - and the result (if any). Something like this would be very interesting stuff and great material for several new interesting discussions.

How about an "e-learning forum"

Re: Toolkit and craft
 

Your timing on this request is excellent as we are fine tuning our new website and preparing to cutover very soon. The new site will have many capabilities lacking here. It wouldn't be difficult to support this request.

Back to the original question in this thread, I'll add one simple setup difference that might not be obvious in the book. It took me a while to get it anyway. ](*,) To visualize the angle of approach, I use my right forearm as the guide. The angle of the right forearm at impact fix is your angle of approach line on the ground that the clubhead will "cover" on the downstroke.

Thanks!

Bagger

Re: Birdie Man
 

Ahaha...that's wicked man. Did Leon say anything about Jimi?
Hendrix was awesome- I hate how all the greats kill themselves off. His career was sooo short yet he still is thought of as one of the greatest of all time...imagine all the stuff he could have done from his death until now...good god. It's sad.

Nonono...you didn't touch on a nerve really I don't think...at least not with me. It's a big issue tho really when it comes to TGM it seems. the whole complete complexity vs. incomplete simplicity thing. It's just that that's basically the core premise of TGM...why it works and how it works. I just wanted to explain why I think TGM is great...

That's what I wanted to explain. I don't think you would've gotten the message if I said "Now go buy this book because Paul says so!" Hehe...

There Bendet...that would be a good way to sum up TGM.
Very well put DG.

I had to respond to all that...

...I guess now, as Bagger pointed out, we should get back to Bendet's original question and see what we can do.

Hitting Checklist
 

For a simple visual, search for "Hitting AND Stickman" and "Swinging AND Stickman"...and look at Ted Fort's swing, Matt's swing...and Yoda has some stuff here: http://www.lynnblakegolf.com/Gallery.htm

I'm mostly a swinger but I can hit, so I'll see how I can do with explaining it in a simple, checklist kind of way...these are my keys I guess:

- same grip

- start at impact fix (hands slightly forward, basically)

- close hips slightly at address so that they are aligned to bump more to right field...whereas swingers start with hips parallel to target line- hip bump at startdown is to the target.

- hold the clubface perpendicular to the Turned Shoulder Plane (as the Hitting Stickman does)...to me, this feels like a long chip shot- clubface doesn't fan open.

- trace a straight plane line, as with swinging-> Flashlight Drill: one end of the club or the other always points to the base of the plane line (which is basically the target line on a straight shot), except when the club is parallel to the ground of course (the shaft will still be parallel to the target line though).
VISUAL HERE: http://chuckevansgolf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=801 (look at video called "Plane")

- swing to the Top ("3/4 swing")...not the End (the traditional "full swing").

- because hitting is driven by right arm thrust at the ball instead of swinging's centrifugal force, u can compare hitting to throwing a martial arts open hand heel punch straight at the inside of the ball. That's honestly the best, and simplest thing to relate it to that I've heard. That still doesn't necessarily make it simple though...prolly when learning anyway. Swinging can be compared to an underhand toss (of a ball or something).

-[EDIT]- you'll want to hit the ball first, and then (while your club is still obviously on the way DOWN) hit a divot...your swing traces a circle around your body- a circle only has one low point...low point is after contact with the ball. So...mash the club straight down on that ball and through that ball to low point. This is what people mean by "Aiming Point". That's ahead of the ball- where your hands are thrusting to.

Guess that's it. For those of you who read this- keep me honest. I'm not a hitting expert, and I don't want to give this guy BS.

Anyhoo, don't know if that's simple enough for you but I tried to keep it simple enough w/o leaving you hanging about anything.

-Paul

Nice post Paul 8)

Do you use a slight close stance at address or open stance? Yoda and Ted said open stance. Little confuse here.

I am sure Yoda posted that he likes square. Ted hits from slightly open from memory. Yoda definitely doesn't advocate the closed stance when hitting as his norm.

Town Bedrock
 

We have such a great group here: The words fly. The concepts incubate. We all look for Mother's Milk.

You've asked serious questions.

It's time for serious answers.

In the next couple of days, I'll take my video camera to the Lesson Tee for conversations with two of TGM's most capable Authorized Instructors, Ted Fort (Hitter) and Steve Ferguson (Swinger). In this bare-knuckled reality video session, you will get the concepts you need to move to the next level.

Oooooo...that sounds interesting. I'm all tingly with anticipation Yod-ski.

Thanks man...appreciate it.

Re: Town Bedrock
 

Can't wait. I love it when you turn up the heat in our incubators.

Square toe line for normal shots...as is normal...maybe slightly open for short shots, slightly closed for longer ones. W/E. Square toe line IS NORMAL though, for straight ball flight.

When I said "close hips slightly at address" I meant HIPS ONLY. Feet are still square. Normal stance- slightly closed hips.

Hope that helps der chummy.

Re: Town Bedrock
 

Ahahahahaha...so corny...love it. :D

And remember to keep ypur mind in ypur hands as they are the command post.

"In the next couple of days, I'll take my video camera to the Lesson Tee for conversations with two of TGM's most capable Authorized Instructors, Ted Fort (Hitter) and Steve Ferguson (Swinger). In this bare-knuckled reality video session, you will get the concepts you need to move to the next level.
_________________
Yoda"

Wow.... is all I can say. I'll never forget that day I read DukeNasty's post on GEA about his lesson with Yoda... and the bent right wrist. Don't know why but I tried it and liked what I got... then I bought the book, then it got real good... this website started....then it got better, I went and had a 4 hr. lesson with Ted... best lesson experience ever (and I'm still working on it 4 months later). Now it sounds like it will just keep getting better.

This is the best golf website going... and it isn't just the instruction. It it the grace, the kindess and the generosity shown to all who seek help. Once again I thank all those involved for their contributions.

As I finished my lesson with Yoda 3 mo ago both Ted and Steve had just finished their lessons for the day. Yoda had Steve and Ted set-up as I watched from face-on. First, Steve with a "swing", followed immediately by Ted with a "hit". It REALLY hits home to see these guys side-by-side. I can't wait for the new footage. And , yes, I have been smacking myself in the head since that day for not bringing my video camera to my lesson! Roberto DiVicenzo said it best, "What a stupid I am." Stay healthy kids.
Dr Dave

the book
 

I teach so many people from so many different walks of life that I have to get the point across in any way that I can. If I mention TGM, most would ask if they could get in it. In other words, 'can you strap me in this golfing machine?' Many lengthy and unneeded explanations follow that little conversation. No...it's a book...and on and on and on....

I know it's hard to believe, but out of 1500 lessons a year, I get one or two that don't know about TGM. :o :shock: :lol:

Re: Homer's Words
 

Very good DG...
Thanks for the words straight from the man...